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("North has black kids" would not be very convincing, by the way.)
Can't stand not demostrating your racism?
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If you want to compare/contrast methodologies (or achievement) of Russian and American schools, then why not start a thread about it?
I don't. And if you do - you're just plain insane.
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Are you implying here that Wayzata has poor education quality?
Nope. It is a general rule - all other things being equal. Wayzata is awashed with money, so it probably doesn't have 40-student classes, and teachers must be decent.
I don't. And if you do - you're just plain insane.
Nope. It is a general rule - all other things being equal. Wayzata is awashed with money, so it probably doesn't have 40-student classes, and teachers must be decent.
That first link works, but the pictures don't. In any case, it doesn't compare North High to any Russian school in terms of student achievement.
You called Chinese "barbarians" and posted photos of a bunch of black kids as evidence of poor education. Just connecting the obvious dots.
I'm not insane. It would be an intriguing thread. The problem is that it'll come down to name-calling, hearsay, assumptions, and nationalistic posturing. Luckily, this thread is none of those things: It presents pictures which serve to illustrate the infrastructure in public schools in two diverse places in order to ascertain if they are equal. You keep diverting from this.
Wayzata is indeed a wealthy area, but it's just a regular public school. There are dozens of such schools in the Minneapolis area alone. As a matter of fact, the Minneapolis Norths are the exception in that area.
In any case, it doesn't compare North High to any Russian school in terms of student achievement.
Don't be ridiculous. Graduation rate across ALL of Minnesota public high schools is just 50%. Across all of Russia - 97%. College readiness in the best-rated school is a ridiculous 63%.
Don't even try to compare education quality in US public schools with Russian.
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You called Chinese "barbarians"
Chinese, who flocked to Russia in 1990's, were uncivilized. That's a fact, not racism.
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and posted photos of a bunch of black kids as evidence of poor education.
I didn't even think for a moment that black kids should be regarded as not true Americans.
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Just connecting the obvious dots.
Seeing racism, where there is obviously none.
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I'm not insane. It would be an intriguing thread.
You are, unless you expect to stick to privates.
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You keep diverting from this.
You posted pics, I did - mine are not worse. If you continue, you'll soon run out of good schools in your metro, while I won't - there are quite a few good schools in all of Russia. Then what?
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Wayzata is indeed a wealthy area, but it's just a regular public school. There are dozens of such schools in the Minneapolis area alone. As a matter of fact, the Minneapolis Norths are the exception in that area.
Sure, there are other good schools, but you exaggerate quite a bit.
Don't be ridiculous. Graduation rate across ALL of Minnesota public high schools is just 50%. Across all of Russia - 97%. College readiness in the best-rated school is a ridiculous 63%.
Don't even try to compare education quality in US public schools with Russian.
I didn't even think for a moment that black kids should be regarded as not true Americans.
You are, unless you expect to stick to privates.
You posted pics, I did - mine are not worse. If you continue, you'll soon run out of good schools in your metro, while I won't - there are quite a few good schools in all of Russia. Then what?
Sure, there are other good schools, but you exaggerate quite a bit.
If bad schools are exceptions, than why only a handful of schools score high?
Sigh. How can you compare the educational quality from two disparate countries by graduation rates (which, by the way, in Minnesota is 79%, not 50%: http://www.all4ed.org/files/Minnesota_wc.pdf)? They are very different systems, with different methods, standards of achievement, teacher and student motivations, and even areas of study. I think a 63% college readiness rate is phenomenal, by the way.
If you really want to get into methodologies / standards / motivation / curriculum development that is fine, start a new thread.
Meanwhile, you write: Sure, there are other good schools, but you exaggerate quite a bit and You posted pics, I did - mine are not worse. If you continue, you'll soon run out of good schools in your metro, while I won't - there are quite a few good schools in all of Russia. Then what? We shall see about that (you're lagging behind here), but you did manage to get back on topic, so...
Bloomington Jefferson High, Bloomington, MN:
Aerial of campus (The picture is from a private web site, so I think the red/green symbols on there are for directions or something). (link: http://www.aauevents.com/siteimages/...0jefferson.jpg)
I think a 63% college readiness rate is phenomenal, by the way.
This means that only 63% received adequate education. This is not Harvard College readiness, but the threshold for ANY college-level education.
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If you really want to get into methodologies / standards / motivation / curriculum development that is fine, start a new thread.
As I've said - I don't. I'm not interested in trashing US education system.
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you're lagging behind here
I proved you wrong already - there are schools in Russia that can compare with your "typical".
I'm not interested in comparing top schools - both countries are rich, and have extreme inequality, so this is not representative.
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Choir performance.
Theater.
Robotics team.
Want me to post pics of ECs in Vladivostok or Moscow? You know, it's not about what the school offers, but what is available to kids.
You should have known that Russian system doesn't try to pack everything in one location (it doesn't have to, thanks to our urban planning). And until recently we were smart enough to specialize. As I've said before - how can you compare some music class with a music school?
Today many schools offer some (or a lot) ECs all year long (not only in summer, as before), but I don't see a point in posting that, since our system still remains different. At least for now.
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The marching band.
Are you really proud of THAT? Even totally insane levels of school competetive sports don't come close to that disgrace. Not that marching bands are wrong - they just don't belong to the education system, unless it is designed to make zombies.
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You are changing the subject. I was stating that they are not the exception in terms of infrastructure which is, after all, what the thread is about.
You should define "infrastructure" then, because for most people it means something related to education.
This means that only 63% received adequate education. This is not Harvard College readiness, but the threshold for ANY college-level education.
As I've said - I don't. I'm not interested in trashing US education system.
I proved you wrong already - there are schools in Russia that can compare with your "typical".
I'm not interested in comparing top schools - both countries are rich, and have extreme inequality, so this is not representative.
Want me to post pics of ECs in Vladivostok or Moscow? You know, it's not about what the school offers, but what is available to kids.
You should have known that Russian system doesn't try to pack everything in one location (it doesn't have to, thanks to our urban planning). And until recently we were smart enough to specialize. As I've said before - how can you compare some music class with a music school?
Today many schools offer some (or a lot) ECs all year long (not only in summer, as before), but I don't see a point in posting that, since our system still remains different. At least for now.
Are you really proud of THAT? Even totally insane levels of school competetive sports don't come close to that disgrace. Not that marching bands are wrong - they just don't belong to the education system, unless it is designed to make zombies.
You should define "infrastructure" then, because for most people it means something related to education.
I used to prepare kids for the EGE. At least in English language section, EGE administration had to lower the passing score because so few students were passing it. In any case, EGE/SAT/ACT are more indicative of how well students take a standardized test than quality of classroom education (unless you believe in "teaching to the test", which I don't). (By the way, the EGE was modeled on the SAT, so no, I don't think it's "lighter".)
The chart you posted is that Minneapolis schools are an average of 60% graduation rate (not 50%). You omit the rest of the metro area, however, which is what this thread is about (by the way, I found different data - 73% right here: Results Minneapolis High School Graduation Rates - City of Minneapolis). There are definitely some schools that have academic shortcomings in Minneapolis, no doubt. However, that isn't what the thread is about, either.
The reason I say 63% college-readiness is impressive is that it is probably about how many students will go to college in the first place; considering 28% of Americans have four-year degrees I think this assumption has some validity. So 63% of school finishers being college-ready isn't really so bad, is it?
I am not interested in trashing the Russian school system, either. Positing that the two have different levels of infrastructure isn't 'trashing' Russian schools. For instance, I have the utmost respect for Russian teachers, some of whom told me that they make very low salaries (one language teacher, at school 48 incidentally, told me that she made 9,000 rubles/month) and in less than ideal conditions (not enough books, old texts, and so on). I also felt bad for the English teacher in school 39 (on Egersheld) who could not actually speak English; she explained to me (in Russian) that she was actually a German teacher. That's a very difficult position for her to be in (ignoring the reprecussions for the students, of course).
What you've proven thus far is that there are a few examples of nice schools (in terms of conditions), while having the whole of Russia to choose from. While I'm glad that these children have the opportunity to attend such places, after spending the better part of seven years visiting Russian schools, it is my view that the examples given thus far are atypical--you disagree (thus the thread).
Most EC activities in Russia are through a "club" system, which makes participation less likely due to transport, time, and money. There is almost no high school sports and fine arts infrastructure to speak of in most Russian schools. We are discussing high school conditions, not municipal or private ones. Regarding your music school argument: I believe in well-rounded students who have real access and opportunity to partake in well-organized EC activities. Not every child who plays the cello has to become Yo-Yo Ma, nor do children who want to play organized basketball have to become Michael Jordan. American schools offer nearly every child those chances without their having to find an outside club, and I support that.
You're calling the presence of a high school marching band "creating zombies"? Why?! This I have to hear
For me, infrastructure pertains to the conditions under which students attend school and the facilities and opportunities contained therein. I think the photos do a pretty good job of reflecting those things, don't you?
Obviously that is a city school. In the UK we do not have schools that size, we have loads of schools with around 1000 pupils. In the USA they do not have different academic levels so they just put everyone into the same school.
I am glad our schools are small as I could not cope with going to a school with 3,000 pupils, its too big and theres really no need for it.
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