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Old 10-16-2012, 11:46 PM
 
Location: the dairyland
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You are aware that "Europe" consists of dozens of different countries that all have a different school system? What part of Europe are you interested in specifically?
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:55 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob702 View Post
You are aware that "Europe" consists of dozens of different countries that all have a different school system? What part of Europe are you interested in specifically?
Interested in comparing school systems, teaching methodologies, overall curriculum structure, from everywhere.
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
PS. Russiaonline, I'd still want to learn more about musical schools as possible and if they still have any other specialty schools in Russia.
Musical (and other) extracurricular education is available in two formats:

1. Clubs. They may be in K-11 schools, but are usually outside. Clubs are governed by the law of supply and demand, so there is not much to say about them - only that they are all different.

Some clubs are very small and unimportant, while others are quite professional.

Kids and bands from clubs occasionally perform in competitions or just for fun.

Clubs are generally paid, but cheap - totally affordable to all.

2. Specialized schools. This is a formal education, often very tough, and designed for 5-7 years of study (depending on starting age). Admission age - 7-18. Vocal singing is available since 16 years, once voice stops changing. Plus they offer preparatory classes to 5-6 year olds - paid, but cost is very small.

In addition to studying at school, kids are supposed to train a lot at home.

In schools curriculum is more broad than in clubs. E.g. kids learn not only their instrument, but also extensive music theory, and singing.

There are almost infinite number of school, let alone club, types. Arts, music, dancing, martial arts, baseball, skiing, diving, karting, yachting, robotics, origami, military, tourism, retro car restoration, etc. etc. etc. The bigger the location, the more it has to offer, of course.
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:14 AM
 
1,730 posts, read 1,700,629 times
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Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
On the other hand, I would imagine the problem would be similar with foreign students in Patrice Lumumba University in Moscow. How do they study science, medicine, and other specialties, starting Russian from scratch, their first year? And yet they manage, they do graduate and get medical degrees, and so forth.
And it's a tough school - absolutely incomparable with most K-12. But then, it's also a top school, so those students from most of the world's countries may be a bit too far from average.
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:22 AM
 
2,032 posts, read 2,409,404 times
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I would love to hear a run-down, by actual Finns, of the Finnish educational system. I have seen documentaries and read some journal articles on the schools, but actual experiences which might shed more light on the system's success would be fabulous!
Why, in your opinion, is the Finnish model so successful?

I wanted to share this video about Finnish education...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICZyrNLOZ3U

According to the video (if you don't want to watch):

The Finnish model has...
* Short school days;
* Competitive teaching market
* Play (including outdoors) and group-work is commonplace
* Many breaks for children
* Focus on music, sports, and arts
* Autonomy, creativity, innovation

There are specific aspects of Finland that help make the model work:
*Small scale
*Consensual population
*Relatively homogeneous population

Last edited by jeffpv; 10-17-2012 at 07:37 AM..
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:40 AM
 
Location: SWE
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jeffpv, i have no idea why the primary education system makes out with such good numbers. The student body is good, and mostly comes from quite even levels of income accross the board. The curriculum and testing procedures allow teachers to teach without their hands tied to periodical testing all the time. While the class sizes are not small, they're not very large either. Other than that, i'm clueless. Teachers pay is rather low or exactly average by anyones standards, and being a teacher on primary level is hardly a pinnacle in the career of anyone who has the credentials to become one.

I know this might sound crazy, and probably it is, but i wouldn't be too surprised if some of the PISA testing models were geared toward making certain types of primary education systems appear superior to others, in the name of being able to better sell a model of restructuring to some of the systems that do "less then well" but have no shortage of money to invest in them.
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:50 AM
 
2,032 posts, read 2,409,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic_Vega View Post
jeffpv, i have no idea why the primary education system makes out with such good numbers. The student body is good, and mostly comes from quite even levels of income accross the board. The curriculum and testing procedures allow teachers to teach without their hands tied to periodical testing all the time. While the class sizes are not small, they're not very large either. Other than that, i'm clueless. Teachers pay is rather low or exactly average by anyones standards, and being a teacher on primary level is hardly a pinnacle in the career of anyone who has the credentials to become one.

I know this might sound crazy, and probably it is, but i wouldn't be too surprised if some of the PISA testing models were geared toward making certain types of primary education systems appear superior to others, in the name of being able to better sell a model of restructuring to some of the systems that do "less then well" but have no shortage of money to invest in them.
Thank you for the response, very interesting.
I think the income level aspect is an important one to point out. Income levels and educational achievement are typically tied together, so that makes good sense.
I find it interesting that you write that primary teaching positions aren't 'the pinnacle'. From what I've seen/read, getting a teaching job in Finland is extremely competitive. Perhaps that competition is for secondary schools? Or perhaps it's so competitive due to economic conditions (i.e. finding other stable jobs is even more difficult, or teaching itself is particularly stable)?

Regarding your second main thought, I don't think it's crazy at all. School systems around the world (even within some countries) are very disparate, so a standardized test is going to favor certain types of learners and certain types of systems. I'm not sure that it's a conspiracy, it probably has more to do with where the test is produced and who is producing it.
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Old 10-17-2012, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Venice Italy
1,027 posts, read 1,095,805 times
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The Italian school system as it is structured makes no sense to me, the method of education is linked to a traditional system that provides.. x answers.. in a specified time, this system is totally odd, it debars the enhanchement of individual child's capacities, it does not consider a reality constituted by different intelligences and different ways to express personal attitudes.
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Old 10-17-2012, 08:59 AM
 
1,730 posts, read 1,700,629 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic_Vega View Post
I know this might sound crazy, and probably it is, but i wouldn't be too surprised if some of the PISA testing models were geared toward making certain types of primary education systems appear superior to others
I wouldn't even link PISA to the education system. Otherwise, Moscow, that scored like Finland, must have a very different system than other regions, that scored much lower - which is not true.

Plus the test is totally flawed - it doesn't make sense that Moscow, with hordes of immigrants, often poorly educated and with a bad command of Russian, is on top.

Moscow scores significantly below the urban average on the national test! Now that makes sense.
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:14 AM
 
14,998 posts, read 13,576,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob702 View Post
You are aware that "Europe" consists of dozens of different countries that all have a different school system? What part of Europe are you interested in specifically?
Your part of Europe since you are participating in this thread.
(Did you expect me to comprise the whole list of European countries in the OP?
Sorry, didn't have time for that)))
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