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Old 10-21-2012, 12:24 PM
 
14,996 posts, read 13,572,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpolyglot View Post
Somewhere between 97 and 99. Half of the East Side was ALREADY from California. Most Californians feel more comfortable living there, since it looks more like home. Center dividers on roads, complete with landscaping.
See? As I thought, and you seem to be proud of it, however the natives of Washington kept their resentment for long time. Truth to be told, Seattle was voted as the "most livable city" in the US, before Californians moved in. Now look where it is on the list...
Has got nothing to do with PC, really.
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Old 10-21-2012, 12:27 PM
 
14,752 posts, read 28,546,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Has got nothing to do with PC, really.
It does. Totally. This person and I were friends. I was from California. He had gone to college in California. I guess my inability to walk on eggshells reared its head. As I told him the story where I tore into a Stepford Bellevue housewife for her anti-CA comment, he looked like he needed a defibrillator.
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Old 10-21-2012, 01:00 PM
 
2,924 posts, read 2,354,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
No. I do not believe that Europeans in general are more tolerant. My gosh, look at the brouhaha over Muslim attire in France and minarets in Switzerland. Banning Muslim attire in a US public school, or banning the building of a minaret would not be mainstream in the US at all. Not to say it wouldn't happen, but it would be an exception rather than the rule.

I'm not arguing whether it's right or wrong, just stating a difference.
That does not have anything to do with tolerance but rather with protecting national identity. I am with the French and Swiss on that.
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Old 10-21-2012, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Iowa, Heartland of Murica
3,437 posts, read 5,501,750 times
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Let me start by saying that the USA is a very hypocritical nation. We are always telling people about how "free" but our freedom of speech is mostly BULL****!

I.e: Angela Merkel a few years ago stated that "Multiculturalism has failed in Germany"- a great statement in my opinion, very direct and very honest. An American president would NEVER dare to say something like that-if he did, he would probably lose his job!

Most of my German/Austrian friends talk openly about how they don't like Muslims or Turks, it is not really "hate speech" but it is truly how they feel. Here in the USA, most people who feel the same way about a particular ethnic/religious group, would never dare to express their views openly.

If any American still believes that they have freedom of speech, just state openly at your workplace that you do not like Blacks, Hispanics or gays- you will be fired on the spot!
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Old 10-21-2012, 05:38 PM
 
14,752 posts, read 28,546,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat View Post
Most of my German/Austrian friends talk openly about how they don't like Muslims or Turks, it is not really "hate speech" but it is truly how they feel. Here in the USA, most people who feel the same way about a particular ethnic/religious group, would never dare to express their views openly.

If any American still believes that they have freedom of speech, just state openly at your workplace how you do not like Blacks, Hispanics or gays- you will be fired on the spot!
You express those views to your friends who have the SAME views.

About the latter, a conservative company will NOT fire you. A liberal company will FIND a way to fire you. And a large company will probably write you up and/or send you to an "anger management" workshop. Sexual harassment is the big issue in employee deportment these days, and I think a comment about a particular sub-group you don't like, since it isn't aimed at a particular person, does NOT constitute harassment, but people get real creative nowadays. However, I could see how it would p iss off a group of people in the workplace, especially those of that sub-group, and the liberals who will be all over you.
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Old 10-21-2012, 05:38 PM
 
2,924 posts, read 2,354,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat View Post
Let me start by saying that the USA is a very hypocritical nation. We are always telling people about how "free" but our freedom of speech is mostly BULL****!

I.e: Angela Merkel a few years ago stated that "Multiculturalism has failed in Germany"- a great statement in my opinion, very direct and very honest. An American president would NEVER dare to say something like that-if he did, he would probably lose his job!

Most of my German/Austrian friends talk openly about how they don't like Muslims or Turks, it is not really "hate speech" but it is truly how they feel. Here in the USA, most people who feel the same way about a particular ethnic/religious group, would never dare to express their views openly.

If any American still believes that they have freedom of speech, just state openly at your workplace that you do not like Blacks, Hispanics or gays- you will be fired on the spot!
Or you could just get beat up....
You see none of the countries in Europe have minorities like we do at about 30% of population. If we are to live and work together if you just start telling people that you either like or not like them based on their ethnicity it would make working together difficult if not impossible.
You may like or dislike somebody bud as long as you are at work you live keep these feelings to yourself, they do not help working in a team. Clear?
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:03 AM
 
567 posts, read 907,247 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpolyglot View Post
That ... or their standing in a social circle. Great post. Among kids in LA, pre 1984 (since you mention Orwell), political correctness was nowhere to be found. And not even among the parents. The funny thing is that, differences were addressed with humor, and I'll bet the diverse factions of LA got along better in those years than they do today, when you have to walk on eggshells.
I was a kid in L.A. in the 80s. I really don't look back on white kids' casual use of the word "beaner" with very much fondness, although maybe I'm just oversensitive or something. There is validity to Clint Eastwood's description of growing up in San Francisco, where he and his multi-racial crowd of friends would sling racial slurs at each other along with non-racial slurs and it was all gravy. Hell, me and some of my friends used to do that, "hey beaner san!" with "shut yer yap, J@p!" in response. (Hey, how come the second slur is censored but not the first?)

But in my experience, a fair amount of those white kids came from homes that were reminiscent of the dinner table flashback from American History X. That's not a Godwin, anybody who's seen the movie and grew up in L.A. during that time period will understand.

Last edited by MetalLord; 10-22-2012 at 01:24 AM..
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:41 AM
 
567 posts, read 907,247 times
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As for Italy, here's my limited ex-pat perception. Here you know who the outright active bigots are, because they don't have to hide it. They haven't just messed with recent immigrants, btw. Ethno-linguistic minority groups who've been on what is now Italian soil (there was no single unified Italian state prior to the 1860s, and its borders shifted during, between, and after the world wars) since the Dark Ages and before, and who in some cases are whiter than typical Italians, get messed with too (and I most certainly include the Mussolini years in that!).

You know who the fascists are, what they think, and who represents them politically in Rome and in regional legislatures. That's the other thing. Here, the fascists are in Parliament, and I think they manage to make more noise than their NF/BNP counterparts manage to do in Britain. In America, they're humping their cousins in Idaho compounds and ranting impotently on Stormfront, and the Republican Party to its great credit will not touch them with an eleven foot barge-pole, unlike certain right wing parliamentary coalitions in certain European countries.

Well, I'm not sure which is better or worse. I do know that an outright kluxer couldn't get elected to the US Congress today, although David Duke wasn't too long ago.
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Old 10-22-2012, 08:42 AM
 
320 posts, read 671,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalLord View Post
As for Italy, here's my limited ex-pat perception. Here you know who the outright active bigots are, because they don't have to hide it. They haven't just messed with recent immigrants, btw. Ethno-linguistic minority groups who've been on what is now Italian soil (there was no single unified Italian state prior to the 1860s, and its borders shifted during, between, and after the world wars) since the Dark Ages and before, and who in some cases are whiter than typical Italians, get messed with too (and I most certainly include the Mussolini years in that!).

You know who the fascists are, what they think, and who represents them politically in Rome and in regional legislatures. That's the other thing. Here, the fascists are in Parliament, and I think they manage to make more noise than their NF/BNP counterparts manage to do in Britain. In America, they're humping their cousins in Idaho compounds and ranting impotently on Stormfront, and the Republican Party to its great credit will not touch them with an eleven foot barge-pole, unlike certain right wing parliamentary coalitions in certain European countries.

Well, I'm not sure which is better or worse. I do know that an outright kluxer couldn't get elected to the US Congress today, although David Duke wasn't too long ago.
Thats exactly how Europe is, the question is where would you prefer to be a minority ? IN America for sure, at least we don't have to deal with such bigots on daily basis.
But as I said before, I still miss the more spontaneus Europeans which makes easier to make friends.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Colorado
4,308 posts, read 11,784,416 times
Reputation: 4425
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
But trust, they aren't allowed to speak against their own government. That would mean alienation, jail, death, or all three. As for being tolerant, please. Like most avowed Liberals, Europeans are only "tolerant" to everyone else but conservatives. Not truly tolerant at all.

I'm sorry but what countries are you referring to?! Which ones imprison or execute their population for protesting or speaking out? The UK, France, Germany, Sweden . . . ? I am totally confused by this utterly perplexing statement.
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