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View Poll Results: Sweden is more like
Finland 13 12.87%
Norway 88 87.13%
Voters: 101. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-11-2013, 02:01 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,268 posts, read 18,623,267 times
Reputation: 11103

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Quote:
Originally Posted by takeo3 View Post
Finnish people had a big Swedish influence, however Swedes had little Finnish influence. Norway and Sweden are culturally very similar, Norway being like a "child" of Denmark and Sweden.

Fins on the contrary are originally a completely different culture, not even Western, with roots in Siberia. Of course they had strong Swedish influence, but they are still quite different from other Scandinavians. Moreover, they had some Russian influence which is exceptional for a Western European nation.
In Russia there are still Finnish villages, which had little Swedish or Scandinavian influence. These people are not Westerners by any standard.
Of course Sweden as the dominant culture has had more influence on Finland than the other way around, but when there's at least almost 500,000 people (5% of the population) living in Sweden with one or both parents Finnish, it's an exaggeration to say that Finland has had no influence on Sweden. When we were just one country many prominent Swedish people were so called Finnish or had Finnish roots. In some wars a lot of the Swedish army consisted of Finns. For example, during the Battle of Riga in 1700 45% of the Swedish army was from Finland. I've counted over 40 'real' wars that Sweden dragged Finland into.

Finns are not from Siberia and neither is the Finnish culture. The culture of Finland was born in Finland, and the Finnish people are most probably from the banks of Volga, as are most of all Europeans. Where the proto-Finnish language originally is, no one knows. The Finnish mythology consists of the same and/or similar gods and traditions as the norse ones, and Finnish ancient folk music have many similarities with the Latvian, which indicates that we didn't just suddenly appear from Siberia or any other place.

"It happened one summer that King Agne went with his army to Finland, and landed and marauded. The Finland people gathered a large army, and proceeded to the strife under a chief called Froste. There was a great battle, in which King Agne gained the victory, and Froste fell there with a great many of his people. King Agne proceeded with armed hand through Finland, subdued it, and made enormous booty."

-From a Norse saga, 8th century

Our legal system is the Scandinavian civil law, our first constitution was based on the Revolutionary French one, our postal system is Finnish-Swedish, our currency was born with the loans from an obscure family called the Rotschilds, later it was fixed on the gold standard making it as valuable as the French franc and Italian lire, our dominant religions have always been the Western ones, our traditions, cuisine and culture are largely a combined Finnish, Swedish and German. Most of our literature, music and movies have since it's dawn being aligned to the west. Even the first book translated in Finnish was the protestant bible, written by a Luther's pupil. And what matters the most, the Scandinavian welfare state is as Finnish as it's Swedish, Norwegian, Danish and Icelandic. To say that the Finnish culture is anything but Western is just false.

The Russian influence is there yes in some ancient traditions and cuisine, and also some in literature and cinema (pre Soviet literature is one of the most highly regarded here), but otherwise the Russian influence has been quite small. And no wonder, as we have mostly been focusing on killing each other the last around 1000 years or so.

Those so called Finnish villages are not Western, that's right. Neither are they considered Finnish. As far as I know, most of the Finnish people were evacuated here during the end of WWII, and your leaders sent the rest to Kazakhstan, the Urals or 6 feet underground.
Western Karelians, Ingrians and such were mostly Finnish protestant immigrants, and most of the Russian 'original' Ingrians, the Izhorians, voluntarily evacuated themselves to the Tver region during the 17th century.
Not that we were so nice during WWII either. Usually the rule of thumb was: spoke a language reminding of Finnish and protestant -> Finnish, do as you like. Spoke a language reminding of Russian and orthodox -> Russian, prison camp.
Modern scholars and also in the legal system, Karelians are not considered Finnish, as they haven't really had any contact with Finland for centuries, and those who have, are already on this side of the border. And the Karelian language is also officially extinct in Finland, and not many speakers left in Russia either.

But back to the original subject. As Finland doesn't share the language with the Swedes and Norwegians, we've missed some of the cultural exchange, and being in a special position as well, it has made an impact. So therefore I say too that Sweden is more similar to Norway than Finland. But Sweden certainly shares a lot with Finland as well, maybe more than some are willing to admit.
But in the end of the day, an average person from Finland, Sweden and Norway mostly share the same traditions, values in life, politics and food. And we all read Stieg Larsson.

Here's a painting to cheer us all up:
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:21 AM
 
Location: Sweden
23,606 posts, read 65,718,862 times
Reputation: 18281
There are a big finnish influence here in northern Sweden where there´s just a river that separates us.
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:02 AM
 
503 posts, read 941,003 times
Reputation: 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Of course Sweden as the dominant culture has had more influence on Finland than the other way around, but when there's at least almost 500,000 people (5% of the population) living in Sweden with one or both parents Finnish, it's an exaggeration to say that Finland has had no influence on Sweden. When we were just one country many prominent Swedish people were so called Finnish or had Finnish roots. In some wars a lot of the Swedish army consisted of Finns. For example, during the Battle of Riga in 1700 45% of the Swedish army was from Finland. I've counted over 40 'real' wars that Sweden dragged Finland into.

Finns are not from Siberia and neither is the Finnish culture. The culture of Finland was born in Finland, and the Finnish people are most probably from the banks of Volga, as are most of all Europeans. Where the proto-Finnish language originally is, no one knows. The Finnish mythology consists of the same and/or similar gods and traditions as the norse ones, and Finnish ancient folk music have many similarities with the Latvian, which indicates that we didn't just suddenly appear from Siberia or any other place.

"It happened one summer that King Agne went with his army to Finland, and landed and marauded. The Finland people gathered a large army, and proceeded to the strife under a chief called Froste. There was a great battle, in which King Agne gained the victory, and Froste fell there with a great many of his people. King Agne proceeded with armed hand through Finland, subdued it, and made enormous booty."

-From a Norse saga, 8th century

Our legal system is the Scandinavian civil law, our first constitution was based on the Revolutionary French one, our postal system is Finnish-Swedish, our currency was born with the loans from an obscure family called the Rotschilds, later it was fixed on the gold standard making it as valuable as the French franc and Italian lire, our dominant religions have always been the Western ones, our traditions, cuisine and culture are largely a combined Finnish, Swedish and German. Most of our literature, music and movies have since it's dawn being aligned to the west. Even the first book translated in Finnish was the protestant bible, written by a Luther's pupil. And what matters the most, the Scandinavian welfare state is as Finnish as it's Swedish, Norwegian, Danish and Icelandic. To say that the Finnish culture is anything but Western is just false.

The Russian influence is there yes in some ancient traditions and cuisine, and also some in literature and cinema (pre Soviet literature is one of the most highly regarded here), but otherwise the Russian influence has been quite small. And no wonder, as we have mostly been focusing on killing each other the last around 1000 years or so.

Those so called Finnish villages are not Western, that's right. Neither are they considered Finnish. As far as I know, most of the Finnish people were evacuated here during the end of WWII, and your leaders sent the rest to Kazakhstan, the Urals or 6 feet underground.
Western Karelians, Ingrians and such were mostly Finnish protestant immigrants, and most of the Russian 'original' Ingrians, the Izhorians, voluntarily evacuated themselves to the Tver region during the 17th century.
Not that we were so nice during WWII either. Usually the rule of thumb was: spoke a language reminding of Finnish and protestant -> Finnish, do as you like. Spoke a language reminding of Russian and orthodox -> Russian, prison camp.
Modern scholars and also in the legal system, Karelians are not considered Finnish, as they haven't really had any contact with Finland for centuries, and those who have, are already on this side of the border. And the Karelian language is also officially extinct in Finland, and not many speakers left in Russia either.

But back to the original subject. As Finland doesn't share the language with the Swedes and Norwegians, we've missed some of the cultural exchange, and being in a special position as well, it has made an impact. So therefore I say too that Sweden is more similar to Norway than Finland. But Sweden certainly shares a lot with Finland as well, maybe more than some are willing to admit.
But in the end of the day, an average person from Finland, Sweden and Norway mostly share the same traditions, values in life, politics and food. And we all read Stieg Larsson.

Here's a painting to cheer us all up:
I largely agree with you, I never said Finland is not a western culture, or is more similar to Russia than to sweden. Because of more than 1000's of years of Scandinavian, Swedish influence, Finland is mainly a western, Scandinavian country, with western-style and Scandinavian history (except the short occupation by Russia, but Finland had large autonomy) and traditions.

But it is a fact that peoples in Russia who speak a very similar language to Fins (for example Karelians), and also share some traditions and DNA with Fins (at least the Fins in Eastern regions of Finland, wich had less Swedish influence) are not western at all, don't have a western nor Scandinavian tradition or customs. So one can say that Fins, without the overwelming Swedish influence, would be more similar to them. It is the Swedes who made Finland a western and Scandinavian country. And obviously that also means Norwegians, which are true Germanic Scandinavians, are closer to Swedes than Fins are, which have a very different language and some different history and traditions. (altough not nearly as different as the Karelians for example).
By the way there are still Karelians living in russia, they have their own republic, altough the majority are Russians. They are eastern orthodox, but I've heard that there is also a small easthern orthodox and even historical muslim community in Finland. That alone makes Finland quite different from other Scandinavian countries. It is also interesting to know that some Finnish speaking peoples in Russia's European north such as the Nenets are downright Asiatic, with a nomadic lifestyle that didn't change much during the centuries, but I think you are aware of that.
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,268 posts, read 18,623,267 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by takeo3 View Post
I largely agree with you, I never said Finland is not a western culture, or is more similar to Russia than to sweden. Because of more than 1000's of years of Scandinavian, Swedish influence, Finland is mainly a western, Scandinavian country, with western-style and Scandinavian history (except the short occupation by Russia, but Finland had large autonomy) and traditions.

But it is a fact that peoples in Russia who speak a very similar language to Fins (for example Karelians), and also share some traditions and DNA with Fins (at least the Fins in Eastern regions of Finland, wich had less Swedish influence) are not western at all, don't have a western nor Scandinavian tradition or customs. So one can say that Fins, without the overwelming Swedish influence, would be more similar to them. It is the Swedes who made Finland a western and Scandinavian country. And obviously that also means Norwegians, which are true Germanic Scandinavians, are closer to Swedes than Fins are, which have a very different language and some different history and traditions. (altough not nearly as different as the Karelians for example).
By the way there are still Karelians living in russia, they have their own republic, altough the majority are Russians. They are eastern orthodox, but I've heard that there is also a small easthern orthodox and even historical muslim community in Finland. That alone makes Finland quite different from other Scandinavian countries. It is also interesting to know that some Finnish speaking peoples in Russia's European north such as the Nenets are downright Asiatic, with a nomadic lifestyle that didn't change much during the centuries, but I think you are aware of that.
Yes, there are peoples, like the Komi and Mari which speak Finnic languages (along with the Karelians), but I think it's quite natural that the cultures are nowadays pretty different when we haven't had any contact for thousands of years. There was in fact a documentary series recently about a Finn who traveled to meet all these peoples. Interesting it was yes, but didn't recognize anything from modern Finland there. Some similarities what I know about Karelians, yes.

Being a part of Sweden and western christianity sure changed this country, but the same could be said if the Novgorodians or the French would've taken over.

The eastern orthodox population consists around 1% of the population, and historically they've lived in the eastern part of the country. And the historical muslim minority are of course the Tatars.

I agree with most what you say, and it's mostly correct. The one thing that isn't is that the Samoyedic languages like Nenets aren't anymore considered Finnic, as they are just too different. But both are still a part of the Uralic language group. I've mentioned here, but it is estimated that Nenets is as close to Finnish as Swedish is to Greek.
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Old 10-11-2013, 09:32 PM
 
503 posts, read 941,003 times
Reputation: 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Who are these people with big Russian letters above them???
Mari? Udmurt? Chuvash???
they are Karelians I think
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Old 10-22-2013, 02:29 PM
 
4,690 posts, read 8,473,143 times
Reputation: 1003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Of course Sweden as the dominant culture has had more influence on Finland than the other way around, but when there's at least almost 500,000 people (5% of the population) living in Sweden with one or both parents Finnish, it's an exaggeration to say that Finland has had no influence on Sweden. When we were just one country many prominent Swedish people were so called Finnish or had Finnish roots. In some wars a lot of the Swedish army consisted of Finns. For example, during the Battle of Riga in 1700 45% of the Swedish army was from Finland. I've counted over 40 'real' wars that Sweden dragged Finland into.

Finns are not from Siberia and neither is the Finnish culture. The culture of Finland was born in Finland, and the Finnish people are most probably from the banks of Volga, as are most of all Europeans. Where the proto-Finnish language originally is, no one knows. The Finnish mythology consists of the same and/or similar gods and traditions as the norse ones, and Finnish ancient folk music have many similarities with the Latvian, which indicates that we didn't just suddenly appear from Siberia or any other place.

"It happened one summer that King Agne went with his army to Finland, and landed and marauded. The Finland people gathered a large army, and proceeded to the strife under a chief called Froste. There was a great battle, in which King Agne gained the victory, and Froste fell there with a great many of his people. King Agne proceeded with armed hand through Finland, subdued it, and made enormous booty."

-From a Norse saga, 8th century

Our legal system is the Scandinavian civil law, our first constitution was based on the Revolutionary French one, our postal system is Finnish-Swedish, our currency was born with the loans from an obscure family called the Rotschilds, later it was fixed on the gold standard making it as valuable as the French franc and Italian lire, our dominant religions have always been the Western ones, our traditions, cuisine and culture are largely a combined Finnish, Swedish and German. Most of our literature, music and movies have since it's dawn being aligned to the west. Even the first book translated in Finnish was the protestant bible, written by a Luther's pupil. And what matters the most, the Scandinavian welfare state is as Finnish as it's Swedish, Norwegian, Danish and Icelandic. To say that the Finnish culture is anything but Western is just false.

The Russian influence is there yes in some ancient traditions and cuisine, and also some in literature and cinema (pre Soviet literature is one of the most highly regarded here), but otherwise the Russian influence has been quite small. And no wonder, as we have mostly been focusing on killing each other the last around 1000 years or so.

Those so called Finnish villages are not Western, that's right. Neither are they considered Finnish. As far as I know, most of the Finnish people were evacuated here during the end of WWII, and your leaders sent the rest to Kazakhstan, the Urals or 6 feet underground.
Western Karelians, Ingrians and such were mostly Finnish protestant immigrants, and most of the Russian 'original' Ingrians, the Izhorians, voluntarily evacuated themselves to the Tver region during the 17th century.
Not that we were so nice during WWII either. Usually the rule of thumb was: spoke a language reminding of Finnish and protestant -> Finnish, do as you like. Spoke a language reminding of Russian and orthodox -> Russian, prison camp.
Modern scholars and also in the legal system, Karelians are not considered Finnish, as they haven't really had any contact with Finland for centuries, and those who have, are already on this side of the border. And the Karelian language is also officially extinct in Finland, and not many speakers left in Russia either.

But back to the original subject. As Finland doesn't share the language with the Swedes and Norwegians, we've missed some of the cultural exchange, and being in a special position as well, it has made an impact. So therefore I say too that Sweden is more similar to Norway than Finland. But Sweden certainly shares a lot with Finland as well, maybe more than some are willing to admit.
But in the end of the day, an average person from Finland, Sweden and Norway mostly share the same traditions, values in life, politics and food. And we all read Stieg Larsson.

Here's a painting to cheer us all up:
Agreed, it's actually now quite difficult to differentiate cultures within Nordic countries, All Sweden, Norway, Finland are pretty similar. Most traditions are similar and at times identical. Perhaps if we go back a few hundred years then we might find the difference, we could find the origin of cultures whether Germanic or Finnic. Apart from that they are all similar today.
[/quote]
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Old 11-29-2013, 08:07 AM
 
1 posts, read 2,883 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
The Russian influence is there yes in some ancient traditions and cuisine, and also some in literature and cinema (pre Soviet literature is one of the most highly regarded here), but otherwise the Russian influence has been quite small. And no wonder, as we have mostly been focusing on killing each other the last around 1000 years or so.
I'm from Finland and I really do agree you with that but to say that "we have mostly been focusing on killing each other the last around 1000 years or so" is BULL****! There has been interaction in eastern Finland with Russia for so many years. It was very natural for us to go there and they to came here and then this finnish-russian border was build and it wasn't allowed anymore. And what we have now? Eastern Finland NEEDS Russia. Finland needs Russia.

I know that Finnish culture is more closer to Swedish culture but oh please you text was full of russophobia! You are living some kind of Winter War dream. Let go already.

We can't punish russians just because their country is rotten. Most russians I've met have been kind-hearted yet little bit rude at first but it's pretty understadable due to their history.

Sorry about my english.
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Old 11-29-2013, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Stockholm
993 posts, read 1,579,053 times
Reputation: 598
Sweden is more similar to Norway, in both culture and language (almost identical). There is many cultural similarities with Finland also however, I would say that Sweden is definitely more similar to Finland than lets say Germany or France.
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Old 11-29-2013, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Finland
24,268 posts, read 18,623,267 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by habalaba View Post
I'm from Finland and I really do agree you with that but to say that "we have mostly been focusing on killing each other the last around 1000 years or so" is BULL****! There has been interaction in eastern Finland with Russia for so many years. It was very natural for us to go there and they to came here and then this finnish-russian border was build and it wasn't allowed anymore. And what we have now? Eastern Finland NEEDS Russia. Finland needs Russia.
Went where in Russia?
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Old 11-29-2013, 12:23 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
77,699 posts, read 69,599,259 times
Reputation: 75344
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
What???
Now that was funny))))
If Finnish language is completely different with Swedish, it doesn't mean automatically that it has got anything to do with Russian))))
Maybe she means in a general way, it's more like Russian than the Scandinavian languages, because of the elaborate case system.
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