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Old 11-02-2012, 08:33 AM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,067,787 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viribusunitis View Post
As a European, this seems to be a bit odd. I mean, you pump billions of dollars into your military just to play world police, but you are unwilling to provide your citizens some basic healthcare? And you seriously state that you "value freedom" as an argument for that?

Well, well...
We need to clear some things up. Your opinions are outdated, as I can see.

1. The most vulnerable of our citizens are already taken care of. The poor, the elderly, and the disabled are covered by Medicaid or Medicare.

2. Those who do not fall into the above categories but have pre-existing conditions or have high risk health ailments are right now covered by the Affordable Patient Care Act, aka Obamacare.

3. Everyone else will be covered in less than 2 years.

4. Anyone who lives in Massachusetts since the early to mid 2000s already had access to health insurance.

You Europeans really need to do some research before repeating the same tired mÍmes that have been programmed into your heads. It's all the same, every single time.
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:35 AM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,067,787 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
wellfare is miserly in the usa

freedom has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue we are discussing so why insert it
We have the same welfare programs that western Europe has. The only difference is we don't consider welfare to allow for a luxury lifestyle at the expense of everyone else (then again, welfare in the western EU isn't extravagant either. Ever been to council estates?)
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:36 AM
 
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Anyway, this thread is not about the US, but about the EU. Just wanted to clear up some knee-jerk automated responses, though
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong / Vienna
4,557 posts, read 5,095,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
You Europeans really need to do some research before repeating the same tired mÍmes that have been programmed into your heads. It's all the same, every single time.
Well, I have to admit, that I'm most certainly not an expert on this topic. But you want facts? About 16% of your people are without insurance (2011, 48mio people!), 62% of filers of bankruptcies claimed high medical expenses (2009), yet you have one of the highest per capita spendings for health care.

As someone mentioned above, emergency room care seems to be free and is open to everyone, but the lack of disease prevention for those people is part of the reason why your spendings are so high.
So, your health care system is expensive, ineffective and isn't universal (btw the only other country in the OECD without universal healthcare is Turkey). The thing is: I simply think that expenses and reforms in the health care sector would be more important than pumping more money in the military industry.

Don't get me wrong, I love your country. But the health care system seems to be one of its weaker points. And I think a developed country could care better for its people's health.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
We have the same welfare programs that western Europe has. The only difference is we don't consider welfare to allow for a luxury lifestyle at the expense of everyone else (then again, welfare in the western EU isn't extravagant either. Ever been to council estates?)

the usa spends a much lower percentage of its tax take on wellfare than most eu nations , thats not to say wellfare isnt overly generous in several european countries , it is

btw , when i use the word wellfare , im specifically refering to unemployment benefit etc
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
the usa spends a much lower percentage of its tax take on wellfare than most eu nations , thats not to say wellfare isnt overly generous in several european countries , it is

btw , when i use the word wellfare , im specifically refering to unemployment benefit etc
People here get unemployment. I don't get what you're trying to say? Can you be more specific? WHy do people that don't speak North American English always say unemployment etc., welfare etc., please specify what etc. is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by viribusunitis View Post
Well, I have to admit, that I'm most certainly not an expert on this topic. But you want facts? About 16% of your people are without insurance (2011, 48mio people!), 62% of filers of bankruptcies claimed high medical expenses (2009), yet you have one of the highest per capita spendings for health care.

As someone mentioned above, emergency room care seems to be free and is open to everyone, but the lack of disease prevention for those people is part of the reason why your spendings are so high.
So, your health care system is expensive, ineffective and isn't universal (btw the only other country in the OECD without universal healthcare is Turkey). The thing is: I simply think that expenses and reforms in the health care sector would be more important than pumping more money in the military industry.

Don't get me wrong, I love your country. But the health care system seems to be one of its weaker points. And I think a developed country could care better for its people's health.
Again, like I just told you. Your opinions are outdated by 3 years. This is no longer true. By the way, people here can settle for less than what they owe for pay nothing at all. I had no health insurance several years ago, and I had to go to hospital for something. My total bill was $0. County and hospital forgave my bill even if I cost them a couple thousand dollars. This was before ObamaCare by the way. Maybe people just need to be more savvy, who knows. Or speak Spanish
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong / Vienna
4,557 posts, read 5,095,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Your opinions are outdated by 3 years. This is no longer true.
Do you have any more recent numbers? My curiosity is serious and without any bad intentions.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viribusunitis View Post
Do you have any more recent numbers? My curiosity is serious and without any bad intentions.
No. The only things I have to go by are the law and changes the law has made since 2009. Since 2009, people who are at high health risk and have pre-existing conditions are eligible for healthcare under Obamacare. In 2014 it will cover all of the general population that don't already have private health insurance, Tricare, Veteran's Benefits, Medicaid, and Medicare. BY the way, the problem with why our health care is so expensive is because we subsidize private health insurance, have socialized medicine in the form of VA and Tricare, and have a Canadian style health insurance model named Medicaid and Medicare. We run all 3 systems in the US, and that gets very expensive and inefficient
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong / Vienna
4,557 posts, read 5,095,865 times
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Okay, now I get it. I was talking about pre-Obamacare and what a step back it would be, when it would be revoked by the Republican Party as they are planning to do now. You were talking about Obamacare as it is/will be.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:27 AM
 
2,286 posts, read 3,915,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
No. The only things I have to go by are the law and changes the law has made since 2009. Since 2009, people who are at high health risk and have pre-existing conditions are eligible for healthcare under Obamacare. In 2014 it will cover all of the general population that don't already have private health insurance, Tricare, Veteran's Benefits, Medicaid, and Medicare. BY the way, the problem with why our health care is so expensive is because we subsidize private health insurance, have socialized medicine in the form of VA and Tricare, and have a Canadian style health insurance model named Medicaid and Medicare. We run all 3 systems in the US, and that gets very expensive and inefficient
Inpatient and outpatient costs subsidize medical research too. The US is a world leader in medical research and the people end up footing the bill, way beyond the NIH and the like.
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