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Old 10-29-2012, 02:44 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,303,854 times
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How has the debt crisis changed Europe?
Do you see the possibility of the EU changing with some countries withdrawing?
How has it affected the average person?
What are the feelings about government and banks?
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Old 10-29-2012, 03:36 PM
 
634 posts, read 1,493,215 times
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changed europe? hmm i would say that less people want to spend vacations in greece! :-)
me and my husband are thinking of moving to switzerland.
Less educated people do not see any difference. They are not interessted in this changings as long as they get their money every month from the government.
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Old 10-29-2012, 03:40 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,303,854 times
Reputation: 5175
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelanieGermany View Post
changed europe? hmm i would say that less people want to spend vacations in greece! :-)
me and my husband are thinking of moving to switzerland.
Less educated people do not see any difference. They are not interessted in this changings as long as they get their money every month from the government.
Do you feel Germany is subsidizing other countries in southern Europe?
If so, how has that impacted the average person in Germany?
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Old 10-29-2012, 03:52 PM
 
634 posts, read 1,493,215 times
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My english is not good enough to write about politics but i want to say that germany pays the biggest amount even when we know that the countries ( or especially greece ) is not able to pay the money back. That`s germany. And many people start to hate our government because they are not asking the citizens, they decide everything in the offices under a few eyes only. The inflation is rising, prices are rising but not the salaries. I love the way switzerland is handling their problems. They`re asking the public (nation) what they want to do or not to do.

If anybody had asked the german nation, if we want to send more and more and more money to greece, i am sure that they had voted for NO! Enough is enough!
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:30 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,303,854 times
Reputation: 5175
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelanieGermany View Post
My english is not good enough to write about politics but i want to say that germany pays the biggest amount even when we know that the countries ( or especially greece ) is not able to pay the money back. That`s germany. And many people start to hate our government because they are not asking the citizens, they decide everything in the offices under a few eyes only. The inflation is rising, prices are rising but not the salaries. I love the way switzerland is handling their problems. They`re asking the public (nation) what they want to do or not to do.

If anybody had asked the german nation, if we want to send more and more and more money to greece, i am sure that they had voted for NO! Enough is enough!
Your English is great, better than many Americans Yes I know what you are saying, here in America too we have lost our voice in government. It seems as if it is happening at the same time all over, but from what I read it seems like it is happening faster in Europe. It seems as if they have already bankrupted half of Europe and are attempting to bankrupt the other half by making them pay the debts of the poorer countries.
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Old 10-29-2012, 07:20 PM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
6,556 posts, read 10,628,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
How has the debt crisis changed Europe?
Do you see the possibility of the EU changing with some countries withdrawing?
How has it affected the average person?
What are the feelings about government and banks?

Europe faces the same basic problem as the US: a relatively expensive general labor and retirement population in the face of the globalization of industrialization.

Already high tax rates are even higher, some tightening on the spending side. The average workers in the less competitive countries receive the brunt of the fiscal "austerity".

The ECB is gradually attaining the full array of powers of a central bank like the Fed, BoE and BoJ, including guarantor of the payments system for which, up to now, it must seek permission, or some kind of deal, from the several national governments. Guaranteeing the payments system helps to smooth out the decline in standard of living for the average worker, otherwise the bottom could drop out suddenly, probably causing disruption with unpredictable consequences.

While I don't completely discount the probability of some countries withdrawing, I think most people consider that the alternatives are probably worse: in my estimation, around 80%-90% of the population in Greece would suffer severe deprivation, while for Italy, which has more extensive agriculture and some serious industry, I estimate the percentage at around 50%, and Spain would be somewhere in between.

Of course guaranteeing the eurozone-wide payments systems implies that the more competitive countries subsidize the less competiitive ones, and indeed it does seem that some people in countries like Netherlands, Finland, Germany and Austria resent it.

In Greece, and Spain too, there appears to be more popular resentment and backlash against spending cuts, while in Italy against tax increases.

I do not perceive significant resentment against the banks: on the whole, European banks did not massively repackage toxic mortgages and pan them off on the rest of the financial system wrapped in glitzy AAA-paper, like US investment and money-center banks did; on the contrary, Italian banks, for example, started having problems as a result of the recession that ensued the financial crisis, not the financial crisis itself, and are stuck mostly with non-performing business loans, and with government bonds that rapidly declined in market value. However Spanish banks are saddled with bad mortgage debt like in the US, so not too sure how people feel about the banks there, nor in Ireland.

My baseline expectation is that Europe will tread water for the foreseeable future, maintaining the basic features of its welfare state systems, though with a decline in the standard of living among the less competitve, higher taxes for the more competitive, and economic growth at a crawl.

Hope this helps.
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Old 10-29-2012, 11:52 PM
 
Location: the dairyland
1,188 posts, read 1,918,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelanieGermany View Post
My english is not good enough to write about politics but i want to say that germany pays the biggest amount even when we know that the countries ( or especially greece ) is not able to pay the money back. That`s germany. And many people start to hate our government because they are not asking the citizens, they decide everything in the offices under a few eyes only. The inflation is rising, prices are rising but not the salaries. I love the way switzerland is handling their problems. They`re asking the public (nation) what they want to do or not to do.

If anybody had asked the german nation, if we want to send more and more and more money to greece, i am sure that they had voted for NO! Enough is enough!
Of course you are talking nonsense as usual. I don't know anyone in Germany who hates their government. Well, at least not more than in past times. What would be the alternative to letting the government decide? A referendum every time? A referendum asking people who have no clue about what's going on (such as yourself, and also myself, to be fair)? Also, what would be the alternative to supporting Greece and others?
The fact that Germany pays the biggest amount should go without saying since it is the largest Eurozone country. I wonder if they still pay that much when comparing per-capita figures.

Inflation is not rising and is still much lower than during the DM-era by the w ay.

What I noticed is that Europe seems to drift apart somewhat. There are countries that are doing pretty well such as Austria, Germany, the Netherlands, Scandinavia while others are in a depression. The idea of generating an equal standard of living all over the EU seems to have failed. But of course, that is somewaht difficult to judge from overseas.
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:07 AM
 
Location: 59N
5,185 posts, read 5,839,360 times
Reputation: 3966
Estimates for net receipts from EU budget based on 2009 budget data (per capita in euro)

Negative amounts show net contributions

Top 5 contributors:
1. Denmark: -211
2. Finland: -113.8
3. Germany: -107.3
4. Italy: -100.7
5. France: -100.4

I am happy Norway is not an EU member.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:06 AM
 
Location: Spain
195 posts, read 606,142 times
Reputation: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelanieGermany View Post
My english is not good enough to write about politics but i want to say that germany pays the biggest amount even when we know that the countries ( or especially greece ) is not able to pay the money back. That`s germany. And many people start to hate our government because they are not asking the citizens, they decide everything in the offices under a few eyes only. The inflation is rising, prices are rising but not the salaries. I love the way switzerland is handling their problems. They`re asking the public (nation) what they want to do or not to do.

If anybody had asked the german nation, if we want to send more and more and more money to greece, i am sure that they had voted for NO! Enough is enough!
To be fair Melany, Germany is who pays more but who also wins more. The reason that Germany does not want the countries of the periphery to break is because it goes against its interests.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:13 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong / Vienna
4,557 posts, read 5,100,351 times
Reputation: 3909
At least for me, everyday life didn't change at all. I can't feel the consequences of the financial crisis and I think that's also true for most of the other Austrians. Unemployment is low (~4%), as is inflation. In other words: we don't have to worry (yet).

The funny part: everybody is unsatisfied with our government. But I don't think it's because of how they handle the crisis, because compared to other countries they are doing just fine. It's more about some political scandals involving the two main political parties (=> corruption: Corruption Scandals in Austria: A Web of Sleaze in Elegant Vienna - SPIEGEL ONLINE ).
So the populist right-wing party FP is again on the rise. Europe, get ready to put sanctions upon Austria in 2013, just like you did in 2002. Those guys will get up to 25% next time. Which is definitely not good for Austria.
Those guys are eurosceptics with a socialist social policy and a nationalistic immigration policy. A bad mix. But the most disturbing part: Like Melanie, they demand more direct democratic elements, like in Switzerland. I basically think like Rob702. Nothing good would be the outcome. They would just use it against the European Union and for stricter immigration rules. 90% of the people would not be able to get the impact of such decisions.

Other consequences of this corruption scandals: A lot of new parties got founded, among them an alternative for our conservatives and one founded by some Austro-Canadian billionaire, who got bored during his retirement.

Recent domestic topics in politics: the EU, how to get rid of our conscription based army, how to get more money for our universities.

As you see, the Austrians are quite stupid. We are doing fine, but most of the people here will make a stupid decision at the next election, just because some *******s in government wanted to get rich the easy way.
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