U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-12-2013, 04:15 PM
 
261 posts, read 438,670 times
Reputation: 326

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post

What's so creepy about them? Their bright colour clothes? The fact that they wear make-up and a funny hat? Kids in the Netherlands certainly don't find them creepy.
Which is why im sure this has to be more of a culture thing because that is VERY creepy to me. Its just down right creepy/scary to the point I am sure I would probably physically attack it if someone surprised me from a sleep or jumped from behind some door. Im talking about I would probably go Vampire Slayer and Pete their would shortly turn into a puff of dust once im done.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-12-2013, 05:32 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,942 posts, read 4,377,170 times
Reputation: 3402
Quote:
Originally Posted by RumNCoke View Post
Which is why im sure this has to be more of a culture thing because that is VERY creepy to me. Its just down right creepy/scary to the point I am sure I would probably physically attack it if someone surprised me from a sleep or jumped from behind some door. Im talking about I would probably go Vampire Slayer and Pete their would shortly turn into a puff of dust once im done.
If you think Zwarte Pieten are scary, you should take a look at the images of Krampus (St. Nicholas tradition in Austria) that someone posted a few pages back Now THAT is scary. A few people in dark make-up, red lipstick and funny outfits is hardly creepy to me. Then again, I'm used to it so you might be right that it's a cultural thing. I'm sure an uncontacted tribe in the Amazon would find Santa Claus creepy too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2013, 05:00 AM
 
Location: Sin City
241 posts, read 370,012 times
Reputation: 390
I've been to The Netherlands twice and never had any issues with racism. In fact it seemed like a very tolerant place. I was in Amsterdam so that could be an exception to the rule but I enjoyed it greatly.

As for the Zwarte Piete, just looking at the image I can understand why many black people and AA's in partcular would cry foul, given the history of blackface and the racism in the U.S. But it would be pretty hard to explain why a country like The Netherlands would go out of it's way to explicitly offend black people. The story of the Zwarte Piete as told by the Dutch seems to make sense and doesn't come from a place of hatred or bigotry.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2013, 10:14 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
22 posts, read 29,824 times
Reputation: 33
It's october again and this year the fuzz about Pete is going out of the roof. 21 people have put in a request to stop the arrivalfestivities in Amsterdam at the city counsil because of Black Pete. As all requests it is taken seriously so the yearly discussion, almost a tradition in its own, started. The icing of the cake this year is the comment of ms Verene Shepperd, a U.N. proffessor who is investigating the racism in the Sinterklaasevent. Without any knowledge of the history, she had her opinion ready with some very false information, similar of the article this tread started with and the Dutch should have enough with Santa Clause and skip Sinterklaas totally. The Dutch are furious and petitions that Sint and Pete must be staying are hitting a million likes in a day.

Traditions in culture are very hard to change and when they change it goes slowly. The Dutch don't see the problem with Black Pete, because he is seen as a character in the fairytale and is higly loved by the children. Sinterklaas himself has lost already some of the catholic symbols on his clothing. If we could make small changes to Pete's costume, like skipping the earrings, making his lips a lesser red, introducing a Green character in the tv-programs who wants to become Pete etc. you hade a way to soften the problems a minority of the black people in mostly Amsterdam (in other big cities the protest against Black Pete is smaller). But now the Dutch feel misunderstood, miscalled and under pressure to forget culture, exactly what discrimantion does to victims. So this does trough back the discussion and now it takes again years for a minor change to the Petes will be accepted.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2013, 10:44 AM
 
108 posts, read 154,417 times
Reputation: 74
During the Main Festivities, many towns and cities in Spain, Reus for instance, have "black giants" made of cardboard, along with the giant king and queen and many other figures.

There are also black virgins, the main virgin of Catalonia, Montserrat. Black Virgins are all around Catholic Europe, I believe there's one in Poland.

http://cat.bloctum.com/spalomar/file.../negre1989.jpg

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...C-Q4CfA7p4LgD5

Last edited by Rozenn; 10-23-2013 at 03:44 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2013, 12:06 PM
 
1,661 posts, read 1,985,314 times
Reputation: 2141
The Netherlands....not even once
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2013, 12:28 PM
 
4,690 posts, read 8,528,466 times
Reputation: 1005
Zwarte Pieten has nothing to do with racism or people of African descent. It is wrong for a Black person to think so, since the tradition originated well before Black people were even known or well acquainted by Europeans. It probably only personified Moors, due to maybe the resentment the Dutch and the other Low Countries had against Spanish occupation or invasion. It didn't begin as a "racial" thing for specific people, far from that. Not every person who paints their face Black are trying to mock people of color. I think a lot of people have the wrong perception. However some racists idiots might want to use it in order to mock other people, but that wasn't the purpose from the beginning. Why aren't people speaking about mimes who paint their faces white, is that also mocking white folks, of course not! It is time for people to free themselves from complexes of superiority and inferiority!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2013, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Belgium
1,173 posts, read 1,669,181 times
Reputation: 1413
Apparently, the UN has nothing better to do than scrutinizing traditions of European nations. The only thing that this fool of a Verene Shepherd is accomplishing, is creating ever more anger and resentment among native Europeans. And meanwhile, Geert Wilders is rubbing his hands, thanking the unworldly, elitist minds that bring forth such stupidity.

For hey, whites are bad and whites are racist. Aren't they, miss Shepherd.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2013, 02:36 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,942 posts, read 4,377,170 times
Reputation: 3402
Just wait until that woman from the UN sets foot in a Dutch supermarket.

http://www.allesin1bezorgservice.nl/...vlacampina.jpg
http://www.allesin1bezorgservice.nl/.../jodenkoek.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...Z-0MbXmDoSs_MR
http://beeldbank.ahold.com.kpnis.nl/...on=200x200_JPG
http://cmgtcontent.ahold.com.kpnis.n..._67874_200.jpg

There will be sanctions for sure, we'll be like South Africa during Apartheid

Last edited by Rozenn; 10-23-2013 at 03:46 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-24-2013, 06:52 AM
 
108 posts, read 154,417 times
Reputation: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondrood View Post
Apparently, the UN has nothing better to do than scrutinizing traditions of European nations. The only thing that this fool of a Verene Shepherd is accomplishing, is creating ever more anger and resentment among native Europeans. And meanwhile, Geert Wilders is rubbing his hands, thanking the unworldly, elitist minds that bring forth such stupidity.

For hey, whites are bad and whites are racist. Aren't they, miss Shepherd.

Right. They will turn Europe into a bland and boring place. Those creeps that are against bullfights, duck chasing, goat jumps from church towers etcetera should be sent to the psychiatrist. For the first time in 4.000 years we are not killing each other and instead of celebrating it they worry about stupid things.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top