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Old 12-19-2012, 11:29 AM
 
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This appears to be a worthwhile topic to explore and talk about further.

A lot of the international attention that France gets appears to focus on Paris metropolitan area: Ile-de-France, and the Provence Cote d’Azur area of the French Mediterranean.

There is plenty of other magnificent, impressive, exciting areas of France with high quality scenery. I wonder why a lot of those areas of France sometimes appears a bit forgotten and not known compared to Paris and Provence region of French Mediterranean.

That is especially true with the Rhone-Alpes region of France and it could be one of the most underrated places in Europe and the World.

For most of my life, I actually did not even really know about the existence of Rhone-Alpes. I found out a lot more about that region in the past year and that was such a pleasant interesting discovery.

Lyon is the 3rd biggest city in France for city limits population and the 2nd biggest for metropolitan area outside of Paris. Grenoble is technically the most populated city in the Alps mountains itself, and is sometimes known as the capital of the Alps. Grenoble almost has the same population size as Geneva Switzerland. Chamonix is an Alps town/commune that also has excellent scenery.

Rhone-Alpes has a significant amount of the French Alps mountainous scenery. Mont Blanc is the highest mountain in the entire Alps and is a part of this region.

While Rhone-Alpes has a lot to offer, there is also very close proximity to Switzerland, and Northern Italy.

This area of France actually has the 6th largest economy of any European region. It is the most economically prosperous area of France outside of Paris metropolitan region with a prominent, vibrant, highly diversified economy that surprisingly appears unknown to the world for the quality and power of the economy.


What are some other people’s experiences/views/opinions with this region of France? Is there other best places in this region that compares to Lyon, Grenoble, Chamonix?

What is the level of social/ethnic/racial cosmopolitan diversity in this region and does it come somewhat close to Paris in some ways for that?

Is it accurate that Lyon and Grenoble has a good amount of what Paris offers, including with urban scenery and diversity of entertainment options while also having some qualities that Paris does not have?
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:57 PM
 
102 posts, read 216,130 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepastpresentandfuture View Post
What are some other people’s experiences/views/opinions with this region of France? Is there other best places in this region that compares to Lyon, Grenoble, Chamonix?

What is the level of social/ethnic/racial cosmopolitan diversity in this region and does it come somewhat close to Paris in some ways for that?

Is it accurate that Lyon and Grenoble has a good amount of what Paris offers, including with urban scenery and diversity of entertainment options while also having some qualities that Paris does not have?
This region is a assemblage of different historical regions. It is the second largest in France, so it is difficult to make a generalization. There are some dynamical places like the northern Alps (Savoy, Isère), the Lyon region, and regions less healthy like Loire where the old industry is difficult to replace.

If you don't like too large cities, Grenoble or Lyon can be some alternatives, but you won't be alone to choose them : there is a strong inflation in the cost of living (above all logements).
I used to go in northern Alps for holidays, but it begins to be more and more expansive and urbanized.
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocking chair View Post
This region is a assemblage of different historical regions. It is the second largest in France, so it is difficult to make a generalization. There are some dynamical places like the northern Alps (Savoy, Isère), the Lyon region, and regions less healthy like Loire where the old industry is difficult to replace.

If you don't like too large cities, Grenoble or Lyon can be some alternatives, but you won't be alone to choose them : there is a strong inflation in the cost of living (above all logements).
I used to go in northern Alps for holidays, but it begins to be more and more expansive and urbanized.
The Rhone-Alpes region of France seems so enchanting, magical, high quality, well balanced with plenty to offer, and probably one of the most underrated places in Europe and the World.

Do you believe the cities in Rhone-Alpes such as Lyon, Grenoble have a good amount of what Paris offers, including with urban scenery, and diversity of entertainment options?

Chamonix is an even better version than Whistler Canada, and St. Moritz Switzerland. The French Alps has magnificent, dramatic, wonderful scenery that goes so well with urban scenery in near distance.

Rhone-Alpes also has very close proximity to Switzerland, Northern Italy, and in between Ile-de-France:Paris and Provence French Mediterranean not far away.
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Old 12-23-2012, 03:47 PM
 
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Chamonix is not that interesting as a place and the skiing is average at best. Places like Flaine, Les Carroz, Megeve, La Clusaz or Les Contamines which are close to Chamonix offer a much better skiing experience than Chamonix. But my favourite is Val d'Isere- Tignes which offers a much nicer town, much better skiing and is a better all-year resort than Chamonix.
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
Chamonix is not that interesting as a place and the skiing is average at best. Places like Flaine, Les Carroz, Megeve, La Clusaz or Les Contamines which are close to Chamonix offer a much better skiing experience than Chamonix. But my favourite is Val d'Isere- Tignes which offers a much nicer town, much better skiing and is a better all-year resort than Chamonix.
Wow, how can you not find Chamonix interesting or impressive? Did you really visit Chamonix before?

That town is one of the best mountain towns in the world for plenty of reasons (also true for Grenoble, Innsbruck) and even better than Whistler and St. Moritz. The Google images photos of “Chamonix France” and “Chamonix streets” proves that.

Who cares about just skiing?

It is also about actual Scenery, Plenty of other Activities, What the Cities/Towns in the Mountains Actually Offer, etc.

What are your views for Grenoble? That city/town is a lot larger than Chamonix. How about Lyon?

While I know Rhone-Alpes region well and created an excellent topic about it showing the discovery of this place, I did not know yet about Val d’Isere-Tignes.

I now have equal preference for Ile-de-France:Paris, Rhone-Alpes, and Provence Cote d’Azur.

For cities/towns to live in France, I see Lyon, Nice, and Grenoble to be equally perfect options as Paris. I love the idea of studying abroad, some of career, and living in France for at least a few years, especially for somewhere between 26-35 years old. I am 21 years old right now. I could get around with English over there. However, I certainly should learn French soon. It seems easy to learn that language quickly, and a lot of fun to experience that. I already have some knowledge and experience with 2 other languages outside of English, and those 2 languages are a lot more difficult to learn compared to easy French.

Last edited by Thepastpresentandfuture; 12-24-2012 at 10:32 AM..
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:34 AM
 
14,253 posts, read 15,327,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepastpresentandfuture View Post
Wow, how can you not find Chamonix interesting or impressive? Did you really visit Chamonix before?

That town is one of the best mountain towns in the world for plenty of reasons (also true for Grenoble, Innsbruck) and even better than Whistler and St. Moritz. The Google images photos of “Chamonix France” and “Chamonix streets” proves that.

Who cares about just skiing?

It is also about actual Scenery, Plenty of other Activities, What the Cities/Towns in the Mountains Actually Offer, etc.

What are your views for Grenoble? That city/town is a lot larger than Chamonix. How about Lyon?

While I know Rhone-Alpes region well and created an excellent topic about it showing the discovery of this place, I did not know yet about Val d’Isere-Tignes.

I now have equal preference for Ile-de-France:Paris, Rhone-Alpes, and Provence Cote d’Azur.

For cities/towns to live in France, I see Lyon, Nice, and Grenoble to be equally perfect options as Paris. I love the idea of studying abroad, some of career, and living in France for at least a few years, especially for somewhere between 26-35 years old. I am 21 years old right now. I could get around with English over there. However, I certainly should learn French soon. It seems easy to learn that language quickly, and a lot of fun to experience that. I already have some knowledge and experience with 2 other languages outside of English, and those 2 languages are a lot more difficult to learn compared to easy French.
I lived in Geneva for many years so I know the region well and went to and through Chamonix many times. While I almost chose to do a doctorate at Grenoble (good business school), I think that Annecy is a much nicer town. There is simply no comparison between Chamonix and Grenoble/Lyon or even Chambery. Chamonix is all about tourism ... there is nothing else there and while the scenery is pretty, the town is uninteresting.

Grenoble is a city and much bigger than Chamonix .... and Lyon is bigger than Grenoble. So both offer a much wider range of facilities than Chamonix and very good schools. I would prefer either over Paris (I am simply not a fan of Paris). If I had to choose then it would be Lyon.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
I lived in Geneva for many years so I know the region well and went to and through Chamonix many times. While I almost chose to do a doctorate at Grenoble (good business school), I think that Annecy is a much nicer town. There is simply no comparison between Chamonix and Grenoble/Lyon or even Chambery. Chamonix is all about tourism ... there is nothing else there and while the scenery is pretty, the town is uninteresting.

Grenoble is a city and much bigger than Chamonix .... and Lyon is bigger than Grenoble. So both offer a much wider range of facilities than Chamonix and very good schools. I would prefer either over Paris (I am simply not a fan of Paris). If I had to choose then it would be Lyon.
That is a magnificent, intriguing, exciting area to get to know and explore.

The Rhone-Alpes region probably continues to be one of the most underrated areas of Europe. Romandy area of Switzerland already seems popular and appropriately rated, but what is underrated is the close proximity to that area of France and the connected relations they might have together.

Does Western Switzerland/Romandy/Geneva and Rhone-Alpes region of France influence each other?

Also, does the French speaking parts of Switzerland in Romandy sometimes feel closer to some areas of France than it does to the rest of Switzerland or does the Swiss national identity upstage it?

It is surprising that Geneva appears a lot more known internationally compared to Lyon, and Grenoble. Lyon is technically a lot larger in population size and Grenoble almost the same population size as Geneva.

Well, I continue to have similar opinions for Chamonix but I do agree Lyon/Grenoble offer a varying experience compared to Chamonix and a wider range of urban amenities.

Oh, why are you not a fan of Paris?

I have equal preferences for Paris, Lyon, Nice, and Grenoble for how much I value, respect, enjoy those places, for visiting, and for living in.
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Old 02-04-2013, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Near Tours, France about 47°10'N 0°25'E
2,900 posts, read 4,072,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepastpresentandfuture View Post
That is a magnificent, intriguing, exciting area to get to know and explore.

The Rhone-Alpes region probably continues to be one of the most underrated areas of Europe. Romandy area of Switzerland already seems popular and appropriately rated, but what is underrated is the close proximity to that area of France and the connected relations they might have together.
I don't know how the "rhone-Alpes" region is rated outside of France, as you say it seem it is pretty unknown in the US, compared with Paris and the Cote-d'Azur which seems to the the places that most Americans seems to know about France.
Actually, the reason is probably that because the "Rhone-Alpes" region is just an administrative name for an administrative region without any historical unity. The historic parts regions that compose the Rhone-Alpes region are maybe more known, especially Savoie, Lyonnais, Dauphiné, southern Burgundy and northern Provence.

Inside Rhone-Alpes, Savoie has a specific history since it was historically more associated with Piemonte north Italian kingdom than with France. Savoie is very touristic because it is really the Alpine part of the region "Rhone-Alpes". The main cities of Savoie are Chambery and Annecy. Both lie along lakes, with charming historical centers and remind the neiboring Alpine town of northern Italy or Tessino such as Lugano.
http://www.accorderie.fr/wp-content/...mbery_7246.jpg
http://www.sunlocation.fr/images/zones/36150/1.jpeg
http://photos.creafrance.org/petites...ones-alpes.jpg

While Lyonnais region along the Rhone Valley is in vast plain, and parts of the Massif central mountains, around St Etienne. these areas are quite industrial, so may that might frightened a bit the visitors. Lyon is surrounded by factories and chemical industries, but the city itself is beautiful.
It is the second urban area in France, and third biggest city. Lyon is much more colored than the grey Paris, it has the Roman tiles tipical from southern Europe. The city is build the place where the rivers of Rhone and Saone met, the old town is build on two hille, it has renaissance architecture and roman ruins.
http://www.lyonmag.com/medias/images/vue-lyon.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._fourviere.jpg
In the old town of Lyon
http://www.radioscoop.com/imgs/109961_640_360.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Rb60AkJfF2...vieux+lyon.jpg
http://www.lyon-france.com/var/ez_si...Vieux-Lyon.jpg

In the east of Lyon, there are the monts du Lyonnais and monts du Forez, which are a part of the massif central:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rez_France.jpg
http://lavireedesgrandsducs.free.fr/...u-lyonnais.jpg

In the north-west of Lyon, a part or Rhone-Alpes was historically more associated with southern Burgundy. These hilly areas are famous for their vineyards and quaint villages "pierres dorées".
http://romain360.files.wordpress.com...9/dsc_0303.jpg

To the north-east of Lyon, it was the historical region of Bresse. Which is acutally a very flat and humid plain. famous for its traditional typical farms.
http://www.ain-tourisme.com/cache/im...e-la-foret.jpg

Others historical regions of Rhone-Alpes are Dauphiné (capital Grenoble), which encompass Alpine areas and Rhone Valley south of Lyon (Vienne) to areas with mediterranean climate in the south.
Even if small than Lyon, Grenoble is the biggest city inside the Alps themselves, it is quite dynamic city with high tech field but also famous for surburbian violence.
http://ges52.fond-ecran-image.com/bl...bastille-1.jpg

Then, the south of Rhone-Alpes (south of Velence) was historically part of Provence. The architecture, climate and general ambiance is completly Provençal there, without technically being in Provence.
http://www.drome-provence.com/villages/img/nyons1.jpg
http://www.lesgitesdessablieres.site...ovencale_1.jpg
http://image.mabulle.com/s/sa/saxo-e.../nyons/093.JPG

Finally, in the south-west of Rhone-Alpes, is Ardèche depértement, which is made of wild hill/montains
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...d%C3%A8che.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...d%C3%A8che.jpg
http://www.saint-montan.com/ardeche/...e-img_5221.jpg


So, as you can see, Rhone-Alpes region is not just the Alps, but also the Rhone Valley and its vineyards, northern Provence, Massif central, mediterranean hills, humid Bresse, etc... a very diverse region that is often overshawdowed by its most impressive landmark; the Alps:
http://photos.creafrance.org/pois/17...mont-blanc.jpg
http://images.toocharger.com/img/gra...lanc.72488.jpg



Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepastpresentandfuture View Post
Does Western Switzerland/Romandy/Geneva and Rhone-Alpes region of France influence each other?

Also, does the French speaking parts of Switzerland in Romandy sometimes feel closer to some areas of France than it does to the rest of Switzerland or does the Swiss national identity upstage it?
As I said, Rhone-Alpe is not a homogenous region, and was never united under a single identity until the 80's. So they might have parts of Rhone-Alpes that is somehow similar to the french-sepaking parts of Switerland. That is mostly the Savoie area. The rest of Rhone-Alpes doesn't have a so much proximity with Romand Switzerland. I tend to think that the french region that is mostly similar to Romand Switzerland is more found in the France comté region than in Rhone-Alpes. In fact Franche-Comté (in Jura moutains) just lies west of Switzerland and doesn't have the mediterranean influences that many parts of Rhone-Alpes have. The architecture of these regions is much more swiss in my opinion. http://www.cartesfrance.fr/carte-fra...che-Comte.html
I see many people associate Rhone-Alpes with Switzerland while it has many other borders; with Italy, Provence, Auvergne and Languedoc-Roussillon.
Actually, many parts of Rhone-Alpes are closer to the mediterranean than close to Switzerland.
http://www.cartesfrance.fr/cartes/re...hone-Alpes.jpg


Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepastpresentandfuture View Post
It is surprising that Geneva appears a lot more known internationally compared to Lyon, and Grenoble. Lyon is technically a lot larger in population size and Grenoble almost the same population size as Geneva.
It is mainly because Geneva is host of so many international institutions that it is famous internationally. Lyon is about 3 or 4 times bigger than Geneva.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepastpresentandfuture View Post
Well, I continue to have similar opinions for Chamonix but I do agree Lyon/Grenoble offer a varying experience compared to Chamonix and a wider range of urban amenities.
You seem focused about Chamonix, I can understand it might be because it is the gate of the Mont-Blanc area, as such it is a touristic area. But it is not a city; more like a big village or resort (less than 10 000 inhabitants), as such the town doesn't offer much, only the nature around. In Savoie the interesting cities are farther from the highest mountains: Annecy and Chambery.

Last edited by french user; 02-04-2013 at 08:17 AM..
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Near Tours, France about 47°10'N 0°25'E
2,900 posts, read 4,072,898 times
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Also, many people associate french Alps with Rhone-Alpes only, and often forget the other Alpine frecnh region: Provence-Alpes-Cote d'Azur. Maybe because the Provençal Alps are a bit lower than in Rhone-Alpes, and the region is most famous for its coasts and beaches. But almost half of Provence is part of the Alps. Actually this is more than Rhone-Alpes.
I personnally used to ski in Provence (Pra-loup resort) and in Nice area (Isola 2000).
The funny thing is that Nice is a much more Alpine city (closer to the high mountains) than Lyon.

Map of the closest big cities to the ALps.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/Villes_Alpes.png
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by french user View Post
I don't know how the "rhone-Alpes" region is rated outside of France, as you say it seem it is pretty unknown in the US, compared with Paris and the Cote-d'Azur which seems to the the places that most Americans seems to know about France.
Actually, the reason is probably that because the "Rhone-Alpes" region is just an administrative name for an administrative region without any historical unity. The historic parts regions that compose the Rhone-Alpes region are maybe more known, especially Savoie, Lyonnais, Dauphiné, southern Burgundy and northern Provence.

Inside Rhone-Alpes, Savoie has a specific history since it was historically more associated with Piemonte north Italian kingdom than with France. Savoie is very touristic because it is really the Alpine part of the region "Rhone-Alpes". The main cities of Savoie are Chambery and Annecy. Both lie along lakes, with charming historical centers and remind the neiboring Alpine town of northern Italy or Tessino such as Lugano.
http://www.accorderie.fr/wp-content/...mbery_7246.jpg
http://www.sunlocation.fr/images/zones/36150/1.jpeg
http://photos.creafrance.org/petites...ones-alpes.jpg

While Lyonnais region along the Rhone Valley is in vast plain, and parts of the Massif central mountains, around St Etienne. these areas are quite industrial, so may that might frightened a bit the visitors. Lyon is surrounded by factories and chemical industries, but the city itself is beautiful.
It is the second urban area in France, and third biggest city. Lyon is much more colored than the grey Paris, it has the Roman tiles tipical from southern Europe. The city is build the place where the rivers of Rhone and Saone met, the old town is build on two hille, it has renaissance architecture and roman ruins.
http://www.lyonmag.com/medias/images/vue-lyon.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._fourviere.jpg
In the old town of Lyon
http://www.radioscoop.com/imgs/109961_640_360.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Rb60AkJfF2...vieux+lyon.jpg
http://www.lyon-france.com/var/ez_si...Vieux-Lyon.jpg

In the east of Lyon, there are the monts du Lyonnais and monts du Forez, which are a part of the massif central:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rez_France.jpg
http://lavireedesgrandsducs.free.fr/...u-lyonnais.jpg

In the north-west of Lyon, a part or Rhone-Alpes was historically more associated with southern Burgundy. These hilly areas are famous for their vineyards and quaint villages "pierres dorées".
http://romain360.files.wordpress.com...9/dsc_0303.jpg

To the north-east of Lyon, it was the historical region of Bresse. Which is acutally a very flat and humid plain. famous for its traditional typical farms.
http://www.ain-tourisme.com/cache/im...e-la-foret.jpg

Others historical regions of Rhone-Alpes are Dauphiné (capital Grenoble), which encompass Alpine areas and Rhone Valley south of Lyon (Vienne) to areas with mediterranean climate in the south.
Even if small than Lyon, Grenoble is the biggest city inside the Alps themselves, it is quite dynamic city with high tech field but also famous for surburbian violence.
http://ges52.fond-ecran-image.com/bl...bastille-1.jpg

Then, the south of Rhone-Alpes (south of Velence) was historically part of Provence. The architecture, climate and general ambiance is completly Provençal there, without technically being in Provence.
http://www.drome-provence.com/villages/img/nyons1.jpg
http://www.lesgitesdessablieres.site...ovencale_1.jpg
http://image.mabulle.com/s/sa/saxo-e.../nyons/093.JPG

Finally, in the south-west of Rhone-Alpes, is Ardèche depértement, which is made of wild hill/montains
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Balazuc_-_pont_sur_l'Ard%C3%A8che.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...d%C3%A8che.jpg
http://www.saint-montan.com/ardeche/...e-img_5221.jpg


So, as you can see, Rhone-Alpes region is not just the Alps, but also the Rhone Valley and its vineyards, northern Provence, Massif central, mediterranean hills, humid Bresse, etc... a very diverse region that is often overshawdowed by its most impressive landmark; the Alps:
http://photos.creafrance.org/pois/17...mont-blanc.jpg
http://images.toocharger.com/img/gra...lanc.72488.jpg

As I said, Rhone-Alpe is not a homogenous region, and was never united under a single identity until the 80's. So they might have parts of Rhone-Alpes that is somehow similar to the french-sepaking parts of Switerland. That is mostly the Savoie area. The rest of Rhone-Alpes doesn't have a so much proximity with Romand Switzerland. I tend to think that the french region that is mostly similar to Romand Switzerland is more found in the France comté region than in Rhone-Alpes. In fact Franche-Comté (in Jura moutains) just lies west of Switzerland and doesn't have the mediterranean influences that many parts of Rhone-Alpes have. The architecture of these regions is much more swiss in my opinion. FRANCHE-COMTE : Carte, plan, villes de la région Franche-Comté
I see many people associate Rhone-Alpes with Switzerland while it has many other borders; with Italy, Provence, Auvergne and Languedoc-Roussillon.
Actually, many parts of Rhone-Alpes are closer to the mediterranean than close to Switzerland.
http://www.cartesfrance.fr/cartes/re...hone-Alpes.jpg
There is a lot more worthwhile, intriguing places to know about France outside of Ile-de-France: Paris and Provence Cote d’Azur. That is surprising when some people don’t realize that yet.

I noticed everyone that knows about Rhone-Alpes region’s existence love that place, and finding it to be one of the most underrated places in the world. How ironic since its in France, and the country technically with the highest number of international visitors.

The Rhone-Alpes region does have a lot of visually pleasant scenery. I assume a very high quality of life, and a balance of urban, and nature. I assume Lyon and maybe also Grenoble have a good amount of urban culture and entertainment options. There is plenty of cities in France outside Paris that can offer an urban experience.


These photos give Lyon an especially captivating image: http://images5.fanpop.com/image/phot...0-1024-768.jpg

More architecture, street scenery of Lyon:http://archiseek.com/wp-content/gall...s/cityhall.jpg

The festival of lights compliment the architecture, especially the 8th photo from the top/5th photo from the bottom:Festival of Lights: Lyon's majestic buildings brilliantly displayed in its annual event | Mail Online

One of the main centralized areas of Lyon. I wonder how much of Lyon has the best activity:
http://www.globeimages.net/data/medi...e____photo.jpg

Here is some of Grenoble visually in photos:
http://www.francetoday.com/articles/...546.main_f.jpg
http://middleware05.objectweb.org/im...e-by-night.jpg
http://stephenrees.files.wordpress.c...noble-1290.jpg
http://blonde-gypsy.com/wp-content/u...-1024x1024.jpg

Here is some of the best photos I found for French Alps that can compare well to the Swiss and Austrian Alps:
http://blog.boundlessjourneys.com/fi...ack-hi-res.jpg
http://www.waterfront-real-estate-fo...ages/alps5.jpg
Travel photos and user photos of Chamonix on Concierge.com
http://richardtulloch.files.wordpres...11/07/gr51.jpg
http://www.landscape-photo.net/album...n_the_Alps.jpg
http://www.landscape-photo.net/album...ine_forest.jpg
http://www.brodyaga.ru/images/France...rodyaga.ru.jpg


Chamonix is intriguing, even if smaller than Lyon and Grenoble:
http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-ge...nix-street.jpg
http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/pe...al-of-moun.jpg
http://www.travelphotosforyou.com/al..._mountains.jpg
http://www.randonneur.net/chamonix/r...nc-03-1024.jpg

Last edited by Thepastpresentandfuture; 02-07-2013 at 11:19 AM..
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