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Old 05-26-2013, 03:01 AM
 
381 posts, read 768,397 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owenc View Post
Well there is an exchange programme between my school and spain and the spanish send ones over and they do a year in our school. Well there was a girl there with her friend and she was sitting in the computer doing weird stuff and I thought she was from here and I was like 'what are you doing??" and then she started speaking Spanish.
She was pure white, like white white and she had blue eyes and blond hair. It was the weirdest thing ever.

And it wasn't even like she was white with Spanish features she actually had our features aswell like she didn't have the Spanish look at all. I wonder maybe if her parents are British.

I receive a lot of Irish and English here, Spain, and most would pass for Northern Spanish or Spanish if they were exposed during years to more sun and a healthy diet. Why the weirdest thing ever? A lot of people here are blonde and blue eyed....and Irish and also Planters are originally from Northern Spain.

 
Old 05-26-2013, 03:05 AM
 
381 posts, read 768,397 times
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[quote=saxonwold;29732477]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lobsta View Post
Really? For the most part almost none of these people would look out of place in England or Wales. In fact, the few who do in these pictures are probably not even European.






My answer to you is the following, these are typically Irish folks and without a doubt, they definitely belong to the Northern European group. The British/Irish generally don't look like Southern Europeans. Irish are definitely not Spaniards.


Most British look average and could pass for any Atlantic European.

Last edited by Rozenn; 05-26-2013 at 03:49 PM.. Reason: Personal attacks
 
Old 05-26-2013, 03:41 AM
 
2,645 posts, read 4,029,296 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komodo666 View Post
I receive a lot of Irish and English here, Spain, and most would pass for Northern Spanish or Spanish if they were exposed during years to more sun and a healthy diet. Why the weirdest thing ever? A lot of people here are blonde and blue eyed....and Irish and also Planters are originally from Northern Spain.
Where do you get the information that the Irish are from Northern Spain?
 
Old 05-26-2013, 03:48 AM
 
381 posts, read 768,397 times
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The "blood of the isles", Sykes.
Not only the Irish, but the rest too.
If course, I'm not talking about invaders, pirates and plunderers.
It's also present in Irish legends, the Mylesian legends.
 
Old 05-26-2013, 04:11 AM
 
2,645 posts, read 4,029,296 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komodo666 View Post
The "blood of the isles", Sykes. Not only the Irish, but the rest too. If course, I'm not talking about invaders.
Thanks for answering so quickly but that theory is outdated now. Those studies are over 10 years old and have been found incorrect. The reason that the Irish and other British Islanders were thought to come from Spain was because of the preponderance of R1b which is common in all of Western Europe. Later studies have broken down R1b into different clades and the R1b in Spain is different than the one in the isles.

If you have time have a read of this.
Haplogroup R1b (Y-DNA) - Eupedia

Also on autosomal testing of dna which gives a better picture of people's relateness the Irish don't cluster with the Spanish but with British and other Northern Europeans.



More on genes and geography: diagnosing your ancestry from your DNA Why Evolution Is True
Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: 500K SNP Europe-wide study of genetic structure

I remember when the theory came out of the Irish and Welsh being related to Basque fishermen and this was based on only the y chromosome and scientists like Sykes jumped to conclusions before more research was done. If you read up on more up to date studies you will find that Sykes and Oppenheimer's theories are no longer thought to be correct.
 
Old 05-26-2013, 04:46 AM
 
Location: North West Northern Ireland.
20,695 posts, read 19,397,082 times
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[quote=saxonwold;29732477]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lobsta View Post
Really? For the most part almost none of these people would look out of place in England or Wales. In fact, the few who do in these pictures are probably not even European.






My answer to you is the following, these are typically Irish folks and without a doubt, they definitely belong to the Northern European group. The British/Irish generally don't look like Southern Europeans. Irish are definitely not Spaniards.
The number of people near me with Freckles is very small.
 
Old 05-26-2013, 04:48 AM
 
Location: North West Northern Ireland.
20,695 posts, read 19,397,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komodo666 View Post
I receive a lot of Irish and English here, Spain, and most would pass for Northern Spanish or Spanish if they were exposed during years to more sun and a healthy diet. Why the weirdest thing ever? A lot of people here are blonde and blue eyed....and Irish and also Planters are originally from Northern Spain.
Well If I did a haplogroup test i'd guarantee it says Scandinavia.
 
Old 05-26-2013, 04:59 AM
 
Location: Jasper, Alabama
87 posts, read 94,813 times
Reputation: 62
Britain was occupied by Romans for over 400 years, from the first to the 5th centuries.

Gypsies have also lived and moved about in Britain for centuries as well. The ancestors of the Gypsies were from India.

Add to that fact that vast numbers - hundreds of thousands - of native English, Scottish and Welsh people left Britain to live elsewhere over the centuries - to what is now the U.S. and to Canada and Australia, New Zealand, and other parts of the world.

The people who left evidently were a bit different from the ones who decided to stay at home and go nowhere, which may account for why the British people today are as complacent as they are about having their own country overrun by hordes of foreigners. All the Brits with any real backbone either left or were killed off fighting in Britain's numerous wars.
 
Old 05-26-2013, 05:10 AM
 
Location: Jasper, Alabama
87 posts, read 94,813 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
Where do you get the information that the Irish are from Northern Spain?
The information comes from Irish history, from the story of how the Gaels took Ireland, the earliest version of which forms part of the Lebor Gabala Erinn (the Book of the Conquests of Ireland):

Quote:

“Now Feinius had two sons: Nenual, [one of the two] whom he left in the princedom of Scythia behind him; Nel, the other son, at the Tower was he born. Now he was a master of all the languages; wherefore one came [to summon him] from Pharaoh, in order to learn the multiplicity of languages from him. But Feinius came out of Asia to Scythia, whence he had gone for the building of the Tower; so that he died in the princedom of Scythia, at the end of forty years, and passed on the chieftainship to his son, Nenual. At the end of forty two years after the building of the Tower, Ninus son of Belus took the kingship of the world…..Now that is the time when Gaedel Glas (from whom are the Gaels descended), was born......Now Sru son of Esru son of Gaedel, he it is who was chieftain for the Gaels who went out of Egypt after Pharaoh was drowned with his host in the Red Sea of Israel: Seven hundred and seventy years from the Flood till then. Four hundred and forty years from that time in which Pharaoh was drowned, and after Sru son of Esru came out of Egypt, till the time when the sons of Mil came into Ireland.….Forty and Four ships' companies strong went Sru out of Egypt. There were twenty-four wedded couples and three hirelings for every ship. Sru and his son Eber Scot, they were the chieftains of the expedition. It is then that Nenual son of Baath, son of Nenual, son of Feinius Farsaid, prince of Scythia, died; and Sru also died immediately after reaching Scythia....Eber Scot took by force the kingship of Scythia from the progeny of Nenual, till he fell at the hands of Noemius son of Nenual.....For that reason was the seed of Gael driven forth upon the sea, to wit Agnomain and Lamfhind his son, so that they were seven years on the sea, skirting the world on the north side. More than can be reckoned are the hardships which they suffered....they had three ships with a coupling between them, that none of them should move away from the rest. They had three chieftains after the death of Agnomain on the surface of the great Caspian Sea, Lamfhind and Allot and Caicher the druid....It is Caicher who spoke to them,….Caicher the druid said: Rise, said he, we shall not rest until we reach Ireland. What place is that 'Ireland' said Lamfhind son of Agnomain. Further than Scythia is it, said Caicher. It is not ourselves who shall reach it, but our children, at the end of three hundred years from today....Thereafter they settled in the Maeotic Marshes.....It is that Brath who came out of the Marshes along the Torrian Sea to Crete and to Sicily. They reached Spain thereafter. They took Spain by force.....Four ships' companies strong came the Gael to Spain: in every ship fourteen wedded couples and seven unwed hirelings.....Brath had a good son named Breogan, by whom was built the Tower and the city - Braganza was the city's name. From Breogan's Tower it was that Ireland was seen; an evening of a day of winter Ith son of Breogan saw it.”


This migration is also recounted in the Scottish Declaration of Arbroath written in 1320 AD:

Quote:
“We know and from the chronicles and books of the ancients we find that among other famous nations our own, the Scots, has been graced with widespread renown. They journeyed from Greater Scythia by way of the Tyrrhenian Sea and the Pillars of Hercules, and dwelt for a long course of time in Spain among the most savage tribes, but nowhere could they be subdued by any race, however barbarous. Thence they came, twelve hundred years after the people of Israel crossed the Red Sea, to their home in the west where they still live today. The Britons they first drove out, the Picts they utterly destroyed, and, even though very often assailed by the Norwegians, the Danes and the English, they took possession of that home with many victories and untold efforts; and, as the historians of old time bear witness, they have held it free of all bondage ever since."
The Scythian origin of the Scots is also recorded in the text known as Chronica de Origine Antiquorum Pictorum (The Pictish Chronicle), which is based on an earlier work, dating to the 7th century, entitled Etymologiae by Isidore of Seville, who wrote:

Quote:
“The race of the Picts has a name derived from the appearance of their bodies. These are played upon by a needle working with small pricks and by the squeezed-out sap of a native plant, so that they bear the resultant marks according to the personal rank of the individual, their painted limbs being tattooed to show their high birth. The Scots, now incorrectly referred to as Irishmen, are really Scotti, because they originated from the land of the Scythians…..It is a well known fact that the Britons arrived in Britain during the third Age of Man (the time between Abraham and David), while the Scotti, that is the Scots, migrated into Scotia or Ireland during the fourth Age of Man (the time between David and Daniel). The Scythian people are born with white hair due to the everlasting snow; and the colour of their hair gives name to the people, and thus they are called Albani: From this people both Scots and Picts descend. Their eyes are so brightly coloured that they are able to see better by night than by day. The Albani people were also neighbours with the Amazones. The Scythian territory was once so large that it reached from India in the east, through the marshland of Meotidas (the Sea of Azov), till the borders of Germania.”




The Picts were simply non-Romanised Britons, as the Romans didn't conquer the entire island of Britain, they ended up building a coast to coast fortification (Hadrian's Wall) to separate Romanised Britain from the non-Romanised Britons living in the northern third of the island of Britain. Because the Britons living north of Hadrian's Wall were not under Roman control, they retained their own indigenous native Celtic culture and language, whereas the Britons living south of Hadrian's wall were more influenced by Roman ways and manners.

The words Briton and Britain themselves come from the Celtic words Pretani and Prydain, which the Britons used to refer to themselves and their island. These words are derived from the Celtic root word Pryd, meaning "to mark" or "draw" and refer to the native Briton practice of painting or tattooing their skin with designs using a dye or ink obtained from the woad plant which produces a blue color; a trait described by Herod of Antioch in the 3rd century A.D., who wrote:

Quote:
"The Britons incise on their bodies coloured pictures of animals, of which they are very proud."
So the Britons (or Pretani, as they called themselves in their own language) were the "painted" or "tattooed people". This is something Julius Caesar himself remarked about in his journals when he invaded Britain in 54 B.C.:

Quote:

"The mainland of Britain is inhabited by a people who claim to be indigenous to the island, on the coast live the immigrant Belgae, who crossed over for war and pillage, but settled to cultivate the land...Those living inland do not sow grain but live on milk and meat and wear clothes of animal hides. All Britons paint their skin with woad which makes them blue and more terrifying to confront in battle."


The immigrant Belgae, mentioned by Caesar as having settled on the coast of Britain, were a group of Gallic tribes which included the Cimbri, who had formerly inhabited the Himmerland in the Jutland peninsula of Denmark, prior to the occupation of that region by the Germanic Danes The Greek historian Plutarch mentions the Cimbri in his Life of Gaius Marius, written in 75 AD:

Quote:
"There are those who say that Gaul was once wide and large enough to reach from the furthest sea and the arctic regions to the Maeotic Sea eastward, where it bordered on Pontic Scythia, and from that point on the Gauls and Scythians were mingled together....so that the whole legion was generally known by the name of Gallo-Scythians. Others say that the Cimmerii, anciently known to the Greeks, were only a small part of the nation, who were driven out upon some quarrel among the Scythians, and passed all along from the Maeotic Sea to Asia, under the conduct of one Lygdamis; and that the greater and more warlike part of them still inhabit the remotest regions lying upon the outer ocean. These are said to live in a densely wooded country hardly penetrable by sunlight, the trees being so close and thick, extending into the interior as far as the Hercynian forest....and from this region the people, anciently called Cimmerii, and thereafter, by a slight change, Cimbri"


Somewhat earlier, in about 60 B.C., Diodorus Siculus wrote:
Quote:

"the valour of these people [the Britons] and their....ways have been famed abroad. Some men say that it was they who in ancient times overran all of Asia [Minor] and were called "Cimmerians" - time having corrupted the word into the name "Cimbrians" [Brythonic: "Cymru"] as they are now called."
The Cimbri, or Cymric tribes as they were known in Britain, were descendants of the ancient Cimmerians who originally inhabited what is now the Crimea on the northern shores of the Black Sea bordering Scythia, until they were scattered after generations of intramural struggles for rulership with competing Scythian tribes; not unlike the events described in the Lebor Gabala Erenn.

While the Britons living in the southern two-thirds of Britain became more "civilized" under Roman military rule and adopted Roman ways and manners, the Britons living in the northern third of the island beyond Roman control retained their own native Celtic customs and practices, which included tattooing their skin with woad. Thus by the end of the third century AD, the Romans began to refer to the Britons living in the northern third of the island as the "Picti" or Picts (from the Latin word Pictus, meaning "painted"). The term Pict first appears in a in a verse praising the emperor Constantius Chlorus written by the Roman orator Eumenius in 297 AD; while in 416 A.D. the Roman poet Claudian wrote: "This legion, set to guard the furthest Britons, curbs the savage Scot and studies the designs marked with iron on the face of the dying Pict".

The Gaels or Scotti, as they were known to the Romans, eventually established an outpost colony called Dalriada in what is now Argyllshire around the year 500 A.D. About 350 years later, Kenneth MacAlpine, a descendant of both the royal lines of the Irish Scots of Dalriada and of the Picts (who were descendants of the native Britons that inhabited the non-Romanized northern third of Britain) united both tribes to form the Kingdom of Alba, which would eventually become known as "Scotland" several centuries later. At one time Ireland was referred to (in Latin) as Scotia after the Gaels or Scotti. When the Scotti emigrated to the northern third of Britain, that part of Britain came to be known as Scotia Minor while Ireland was known as Scotia Major.

These Irish Scots, together with the Picts and some Viking admixture, became the ancestors of the Highlanders. The Lowland Scots were descended mainly from the native Celtic Britons and Picts together with a bit of admixture from the Angles who came to Britain from Germany during the Dark Ages and settled in Bernicia (Northumbria).



The majority of the population of Britain however is descended from the native Celtic Britons, a people who the Germanic Anglo-Saxons referred to as Wealas meaning "strangers", from which the modern words Welsh and Wales are derived. The Britons of Ystrad Clud, Rheged, and Goddodin, which were located in the Scottish Lowlands were ethnically and culturally the same people who are known as the Welsh today, though in Scotland they became the ancestors of the Lowland Scots.Thus the Gaelic/Gaulish/Galacian and Cymric languages are identified as "Celtic" today because they were adopted by the Celtic inhabitants of Western Europe when they absorbed the Gallic and Cimbri (Cimmerian) tribes from eastern Europe who settled amongst them, as similarly the Anglo-Saxon (English) language was adopted by the Celtic Britons when they absorbed the Germanic Angles and Saxons who settled in their country in the 400's A.D. The people themselves did not become genetically "English", they were still predominately Celtic, but adopted the language of the Germanic Anglo-Saxon ruling class, who were a minority compared to the native Britons.


If we look at genetics through DNA research, we find that the majority of the people living in countries like Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Cornwall are predominately of the R1b genetic haplogroup. The R1b haplotype is in fact the predominant haplogroup in Western Europe and occurs among a majority of the population in the same areas where the ancient megalithic monuments (dolmens, cromlechs, menhirs, and barrows like Newgrange, Callanish, Maes Howe, Avebury, Stonehenge, and Carnac) are found - which suggests that the majority of the people who we identify as "Celtic" are in fact descended from an aboriginal population that was native to Western Europe all the way back to the Stone Age.

Another interesting thing to consider is that Indo-European languages like Gaelic and Cymraeg would not have evolved among these people, but would have developed from languages introduced from Eastern Europe - the Aryan/Indo-European homeland, where the predominate haplotype is R1a - a fact which perfectly fits the old histories that record the Gaels as having originated in Scythia (present day Ukraine). So the Gaels/Gauls/Galacians who we think of today as being "Celtic" would not originally have been considered as such by their predecessors in Western Europe who were in fact the real "Celts."



The prehistoric R1b haplotype megalithic culture would have spoken a non-Indo European language probably very closely related to Basque. In fact, the Basque people who have remained a relatively isolated population in the Pyrenees mountains between Spain and France have one of the highest percentages of R1b DNA in all of Europe, exceeded only by the inhabitants of Western Ireland, Scotland, Cornwall and Wales, while among the remaining populations of both France and Spain R1b is still the predominate haplotype, though not found in the excessively high levels as it is among the Basques and the populations of the Western portion of the British Isles.This leaves us to draw the conclusion that while the Gaelic and Cymric languages evolved among an R1a population native to Eastern Europe, that these languages were at some point brought to Western Europe by their speakers who settled amongst the R1b Celts (who were the native population of Western Europe) and were eventually absorbed by the indigenous Celtic population that they settled among, though their language survived and was adopted by the Celts. [/left]
 
Old 05-26-2013, 05:29 AM
 
Location: West Los Angeles
9,796 posts, read 9,709,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Scotsman View Post
Britain was occupied by Romans for over 400 years, from the first to the 5th centuries.

Gypsies have also lived and moved about in Britain for centuries as well. The ancestors of the Gypsies were from India.

Add to that fact that vast numbers - hundreds of thousands - of native English, Scottish and Welsh people left Britain to live elsewhere over the centuries - to what is now the U.S. and to Canada and Australia, New Zealand, and other parts of the world.

The people who left evidently were a bit different from the ones who decided to stay at home and go nowhere, which may account for why the British people today are as complacent as they are about having their own country overrun by hordes of foreigners. All the Brits with any real backbone either left or were killed off fighting in Britain's numerous wars.
Oh good grief, are you serious? As has been stated, there are Paleo-Atlantids who occupy the British isles. They are not related to Roma, nor Roman slaves, or anything at all like that. They are the original occupants of that area of Europe, originating on the Iberian peninsula.

Paleo Atlantid
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