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Old 05-26-2013, 05:40 AM
 
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[quote=Southern Scotsman;29733065]The information comes from Irish history, from the story of how the Gaels took Ireland, the earliest version of which forms part of the Lebor Gabala Erinn (the Book of the Conquests of Ireland):

A lot of information in your Post Southern Scotsman. The Lebor Gabala Erinn was written by Monks and is not Irish history but mythology. Scota was supposed to be the daughter of an Egyptian Pharaoh. Everyone knows that the Lebor Gabala Erinn is not fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scota

 
Old 05-26-2013, 05:47 AM
 
Location: Jasper, Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post

A lot of information in your Post Southern Scotsman. The Lebor Gabala Erinn was written by Monks and is not Irish history but mythology. Scota was supposed to be the daughter of an Egyptian Pharaoh. Everyone knows that the Lebor Gabala Erinn is not fact.

Scota - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It is based on oral history and contains factual elements.

Last edited by Southern Scotsman; 05-26-2013 at 05:56 AM..
 
Old 05-26-2013, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Jasper, Alabama
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Originally Posted by Exitus Acta Probat View Post
Oh good grief, are you serious? As has been stated, there are Paleo-Atlantids who occupy the British isles. They are not related to Roma, nor Roman slaves, or anything at all like that. They are the original occupants of that area of Europe, originating on the Iberian peninsula.

Paleo Atlantid
Charlie Chaplin was part Roma (Gypsie) - I'm pretty sure he isn't the only one.

It is also foolish to believe that the Romans occupied Britain for over 400 years and didn't contribute to the gene pool.

One of my immigrant ancestors who left England to come over to America in the 1600's was a man named Robert Taliaferro. His grandfather, Bartholomeo Taliaferro, who was born in Venice, Italy in the 1500's, immigrated to London, married an English wife, and had a family of several children.

Britain has always been a nation of immigrants.

Even the English are descended from foreigners - the Angles and Saxons were Germanic tribes from what is now Denmark, and the Normans were Vikings that had settled in France before coming over to Britain.
 
Old 05-26-2013, 06:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Scotsman View Post
It is based on oral history and contains factual elements.
It is fiction. It is not supposed to be taken literally.

The principal motives of the various authors were firstly to unite the population by obliterating the memory of previous and different ethnic groups, secondly to weaken the influence of pre-Christian pagan religions by converting their gods into mere mortals, and thirdly to manufacture pedigrees into which the various dynastic groups could conveniently be fitted. Thus it is now accepted that the Tuatha De Dannann were simply pre-Christian gods converted into human form, for example, the Celtic god Lugh became a mortal king. (5)

Irish Historical Mysteries: The Milesians
 
Old 05-26-2013, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Jasper, Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
It is fiction. It is not supposed to be taken literally.

The principal motives of the various authors were firstly to unite the population by obliterating the memory of previous and different ethnic groups, secondly to weaken the influence of pre-Christian pagan religions by converting their gods into mere mortals, and thirdly to manufacture pedigrees into which the various dynastic groups could conveniently be fitted. Thus it is now accepted that the Tuatha De Dannann were simply pre-Christian gods converted into human form, for example, the Celtic god Lugh became a mortal king. (5)

Irish Historical Mysteries: The Milesians
Since the Lebor Gabala Erenn is a series of stories that give an account of the various populations and migrations that occurred in Ireland, it does a very poor job of obliterating the memory of those populations.

You seem very intent on spinning your own interpretation of the authors intentions in order to discredit the earliest recorded history of the Irish people as being worthless, when you in fact have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever of the intentions of those who recorded it. All you have is your opinion, which isn't worth any more than anyone else's.

My opinion is that the Lebor Gabala Erenn was based on ancient, pre-Christian, oral history that was finally written down and recorded in the Christian era by Christian clerics, who sought to make the old, pre-Christian history of Ireland fit in with Biblical history, so it is compromised, but not entirely inaccurate nor invented altogether. It is based on folk memory and adapted to fit Christian perspective.
 
Old 05-26-2013, 06:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Scotsman View Post
Since the Lebor Gabala Erenn is a series of stories that give an account of the various populations and migrations that occurred in Ireland, it does a very poor job of obliterating the memory of those populations.

You seem very intent on spinning your own interpretation of the authors intentions in order to discredit the earliest recorded history of the Irish people as being worthless, when you in fact have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever of the intentions of those who recorded it. All you have is your opinion, which isn't worth any more than anyone else's.

My opinion is that the Lebor Gabala Erenn was based on ancient, pre-Christian, oral history that was finally written down and recorded in the Christian era by Christian clerics, who sought to make the old, pre-Christian history of Ireland fit in with Biblical history, so it is compromised, but not entirely inaccurate nor invented altogether. It is based on folk memory and adapted to fit Christian perspective.
Well I am Irish so I have no intention of discrediting the Lebor Gabala Erenn as worthless I just said that it is myth and not actual history and it isn't my opinion. It is from what I've read and also if you use some common sense you can see it is just a myth. If you want to believe it is actual history then that is your prerogative.
 
Old 05-26-2013, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Jasper, Alabama
87 posts, read 95,111 times
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Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
Well I am Irish so I have no intention of discrediting the Lebor Gabala Erenn as worthless I just said that it is myth and not actual history and it isn't my opinion. It is from what I've read and also if you use some common sense you can see it is just a myth. If you want to believe it is actual history then that is your prerogative.
It is myth, but it is myth partly based on history and fact.

The Lebor Gabala Erenn says that the Gaels came from Scythia, went to Spain, and from there eventually reached Ireland.

Scythia was what the ancient writers used to call a very large area east of Germany that includes the Ukraine and stretched all the way to the Near East, to the Caucasus and the Pontic:



We know that Gallic tribes did indeed inhabit this area at one time:



In fact, there is an ancient province called Galicia located on both sides of the Polish-Ukraine border:



This area would at one time have been occupied by Gallic tribes, just as the province of Galicia in Spain would be:



This shows that the accounts given of the migration of the Gallic tribes out of Scythia into Spain and from there into Ireland are actually based on historical fact.

But you seem to want to throw the baby out with the bath water and say "Those people back then didn't know what they were talking about. Only modern day authorities living now have any idea of what went on thousands of years ago, and peple who lived thousands of years ago were all lying about their own histories!"
 
Old 05-26-2013, 07:16 AM
 
2,646 posts, read 4,045,382 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Scotsman View Post
It is myth, but it is myth partly based on history and fact.

The Lebor Gabala Erenn says that the Gaels came from Scythia, went to Spain, and from there eventually reached Ireland.

Scythia was what the ancient writers used to call a very large area east of Germany that includes the Ukraine and stretched all the way to the Near East, to the Caucasus and the Pontic:



We know that Gallic tribes did indeed inhabit this area at one time:



In fact, there is an ancient province called Galicia located on both sides of the Polish-Ukraine border:



This area would at one time have been occupied by Gallic tribes, just as the province of Galicia in Spain would be:



This shows that the accounts given of the migration of the Gallic tribes out of Scythia into Spain and from there into Ireland are actually based on historical fact.

But you seem to want to throw the baby out with the bath water and say "Those people back then didn't know what they were talking about. Only modern day authorities living now have any idea of what went on thousands of years ago, and peple who lived thousands of years ago were all lying about their own histories!"
I would just rather get my facts from genetics and archaeology.
 
Old 05-26-2013, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Jasper, Alabama
87 posts, read 95,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
I would just rather get my facts from genetics and archaeology.
So in other words you prefer to reject the accounts given by people living back then in favor of speculation and interpretation of people living these days?
 
Old 05-26-2013, 07:24 AM
 
Location: West Los Angeles
9,874 posts, read 9,757,327 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Scotsman View Post
Charlie Chaplin was part Roma (Gypsie) - I'm pretty sure he isn't the only one.

It is also foolish to believe that the Romans occupied Britain for over 400 years and didn't contribute to the gene pool.

One of my immigrant ancestors who left England to come over to America in the 1600's was a man named Robert Taliaferro. His grandfather, Bartholomeo Taliaferro, who was born in Venice, Italy in the 1500's, immigrated to London, married an English wife, and had a family of several children.

Britain has always been a nation of immigrants.

Even the English are descended from foreigners - the Angles and Saxons were Germanic tribes from what is now Denmark, and the Normans were Vikings that had settled in France before coming over to Britain.
Have you ever heard of genetic markers?
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