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Europe was settled by a people who were from western Asia from southeast to northwest. Genetic lines follows that same patterns, from the Balkans to the British Isles. The only reason why R1b are both high
in western Ireland and Basques lands is due to the fact that they received less "eastern" invasions than most places in Europe. However the R1b subclades tells us that they're different and aren't the same people in the sense some people were trying put it like Sykes or whoever else out there.
Again..for the umpteenth time....Sykes was talking about 8.000 years ago...subclades are recent.
R1b is in Western Europe (Maykop) and R1a in Eastern Europe (Uralic)...
Again, subclades appeared much later and are not valid to track very old populations...
You are talking about recent times....
R1b divided itself in subclades THOUSANDS of years after they arrived to Europe from Maykop.
The population that settled the isles arrived to England after Glaciation and were "Glaciation Refugees" sheltered in nowdays Basque Country.
It was not strange, they did not drink sangria and probably do not have anything to do with modern day Spanish, in fact, a large part of the ancient population in Central Europe (Alpines) were also sheltered in Spain during the glaciation. It is quite probable that Alpine people in Central Europe and those settlers were similar.
In those times, humans sheltered in southern Europe were occupying areas left vacant by retreating glaciers.
You keep talking about more recent times.
Again..for the umpteenth time....Sykes was talking about 8.000 years ago...subclades are recent.
R1b is in Western Europe (Maykop) and R1a in Eastern Europe (Uralic)...
Again, subclades appeared much later and are not valid to track very old populations...
You are talking about recent times....
R1b divided itself in subclades THOUSANDS of years after they arrived to Europe from Maykop.
The population that settled the isles arrived to England after Glaciation and were "Glaciation Refugees" sheltered in nowdays Basque Country.
It was not strange, they did not drink sangria and probably do not have anything to do with modern day Spanish, in fact, a large part of the ancient population in Central Europe (Alpines) were also sheltered in Spain during the glaciation. It is quite probable that Alpine people in Central Europe and those settlers were similar.
In those times, humans sheltered in southern Europe were occupying areas left vacant by retreating glaciers.
You keep talking about more recent times.
If what are you're saying if it's true it is then irrelevant. 8,000 years ago, there was no northern European or southern European, we can't even call that Basque Country then. The lands adjacent to the British Isles, Low countries, northwestern Germany, parts of northern France were at one time connected so the first settlers wherever they originated must have come by way of those land. It took years, sometimes decades to reach Northern Europe. People migrated gradually, until they reached the Isles. Even in the Ice Age, they are always people who remain and might even survive as soon as they learn how to do it. Weren't there people in Siberia? Sykes and others were trying to paint the British Islanders are a these southern Europeans, while all their neighbors are northern Europeans? That is nonsense! He even discredited the Anglo-Saxon invasion which we know is true, it was even recorded by historical books by the Church in those days. The term "Anglo-Saxon" was made to differentiate them from Saxons who remained on the continent and had to face the wrath of the Frankish empire which was also imposing them Christianity since they were still in their Teutonic religions. Thus it did happen. No matter who those people were, they were also subdued and absorbed by the Celtic invaders who came to the Isles and their invasions took centuries. So it would wrong or ignorant to call the British/Irish today southern Europeans, it doesn't add up!
They don't at all. If they did come from Spain i would have to ask what the hell happened? lol
However the British do have more recent mediterranean admixture more than any other other North area. Mostly coming from Roman expansion. This can be seen in models like David Gandy who have olive skin & mediterranean looking features. IMO the best looking British always look mediterranean admixed.
Last edited by Rozenn; 05-30-2013 at 03:13 PM..
Reason: Bashing
The look of some british people like mr bean are pretty common in most parts of the UK(Ireland Included), I havent seen it anywhere else in northern europe.
Kinda seems like you have preconceived notions of what British and/or Irish people are supposed to look like.
There isn't any ONE look....My Irish brother-in-law has very dark skin and very dark eyes. Looks like a Spaniard.
Who knows or cares why/how? Nitpicking differences in DNA is pointless, imo. One must realize that people have been reproducing since the dawn of man...get used to it!
Frankly, it's not really that informative or even remotely interesting since people do move/migrate over thousands of years. Time to relax and move on about it.
The "old way" of categorizing humans beings seems inane and nonsensical if you live in TODAY's world where people are generally more exposed, cultured, informed, well traveled, educated.
Subclades are not valid when referring to populations more than 6.000 years ago. Subclades change abruptly.
No they don't change abruptly. That is why they can trace where populations migrated from. R1b came to Europe via Western Asia. The whole R1b Iberian Ice Refuge theory has been refuted because R1b wasn't in Europe during that time. It is a lot younger than what Sykes thought it to be and he also wasn't aware of the different subclades. You should read up a bit more on this subject as it is quite interesting. The subclades that are in Ireland occurred before the carriers reached Ireland and the subclades that are in Spain occurred before they reached Spain. That is the whole point the R1b that came to Ireland didn't come via Spain. The area where the R1b clade that is the most common in Ireland is thought to have originated in Northern France because that is where the highest diversity is found. All R1b came from the East and came westward. Populations took time to come from East to West and they went in different directions. Different subclades happen over a period of time. There are older populations in Europe but R1b males seem to have been able to reproduce and outnumber all the other populations in Western Europe where it reaches a peak. R1a is more common in Eastern Europe.
Do you think that R1b originated in Spain or with the Basque and spread from there? R1b is also common in Netherlands, Germany etc but as I said the subclades are different, even Western Norway has quite a large amount.
No they don't change abruptly. That is why they can trace where populations migrated from. R1b came to Europe via Western Asia. The whole R1b Iberian Ice Refuge theory has been refuted because R1b wasn't in Europe during that time. It is a lot younger than what Sykes thought it to be and he also wasn't aware of the different subclades. You should read up a bit more on this subject as it is quite interesting. The subclades that are in Ireland occurred before the carriers reached Ireland and the subclades that are in Spain occurred before they reached Spain. That is the whole point the R1b that came to Ireland didn't come via Spain. The area where the R1b clade that is the most common in Ireland is thought to have originated in Northern France because that is where the highest diversity is found. All R1b came from the East and came westward. Populations took time to come from East to West and they went in different directions. Different subclades happen over a period of time. There are older populations in Europe but R1b males seem to have been able to reproduce and outnumber all the other populations in Western Europe where it reaches a peak. R1a is more common in Eastern Europe.
Do you think that R1b originated in Spain or with the Basque and spread from there? R1b is also common in Netherlands, Germany etc but as I said the subclades are different, even Western Norway has quite a large amount.
The Welsh are said to be one of the 'purest' original Briton/Brythonic populations in the Isles. Many Welsh have very dark hair, e.g. Tom Jones, Catherine Zeta- Jones. There's also the 'Black Irish' in Ireland. Dark brown almost black hair and grey eyes seems to be an Irish look.
Zeta Jones is supposed to be a quintessential example of "black- Irish" even if it isn't techically "Irish". I would guess this look, or strain is the same as that of Black Irish.
No they don't change abruptly. That is why they can trace where populations migrated from. R1b came to Europe via Western Asia. The whole R1b Iberian Ice Refuge theory has been refuted because R1b wasn't in Europe during that time. It is a lot younger than what Sykes thought it to be and he also wasn't aware of the different subclades. You should read up a bit more on this subject as it is quite interesting. The subclades that are in Ireland occurred before the carriers reached Ireland and the subclades that are in Spain occurred before they reached Spain. That is the whole point the R1b that came to Ireland didn't come via Spain. The area where the R1b clade that is the most common in Ireland is thought to have originated in Northern France because that is where the highest diversity is found. All R1b came from the East and came westward. Populations took time to come from East to West and they went in different directions. Different subclades happen over a period of time. There are older populations in Europe but R1b males seem to have been able to reproduce and outnumber all the other populations in Western Europe where it reaches a peak. R1a is more common in Eastern Europe.
Do you think that R1b originated in Spain or with the Basque and spread from there? R1b is also common in Netherlands, Germany etc but as I said the subclades are different, even Western Norway has quite a large amount.
News Flash.
The R1b did not originate in Spain or in Europe, it comes from Maykop, around the Black Sea.
R1B is NOT NEW.
It has been here since the Early Paleolithic era, maybe more.
No, R1b is not recent at all.
It's quite certain that it came from Asia...but not certain as to WHEN.
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