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Old 01-08-2013, 08:19 AM
 
22,769 posts, read 26,076,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
never really heard of them continuing their culture in the u.s
it's complicated.

the eastern U.S. has little local clans that aren't widely known.

some areas of the u.s. they are in fact called 'irish travellers'. Off the top of my head, one town in South Carolina (North Augusta) has a group of irish travellers. In other areas they're referred to as gypsies, and in other areas they are associated loosely with native american tribes. In my hometown they were called 'turks', although they are uncertain of their own origins, and with modern science have been found to have N. African / Portuguese genetic origin.

i'm not sure how connected these groups are with one another, exactly, especially travellers in the US vs. UK/Ireland. They aren't nomadic, here in this area, but they have the reputation of being a little bit wild. I have been involved in some brawls with them growing up.

Their classic "scheme" is to go around offering to repave your driveway for some cheap amount. Then they show up one day and just re-paint it. They've been running this same scam in my hometown for about 30 years. I have some other good stories about them but I wouldn't want britinparis to get any more upset about this topic.

Last edited by le roi; 01-08-2013 at 08:39 AM..
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Paris, France
327 posts, read 857,812 times
Reputation: 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
the above post is the kind of pc wooly liberal tosh i was refering to earlier , middle class liberal - academic - arty types who never came within a mile of travellers , have decided to anoint them with sacred cow status and villify the settled majority for not tolllerating this groups chronic dysfunctionality , then again anything which is anti establishment will warrant kudos from trendys, the hated middle class are to be derided , their function to provide funding for various liberal projects like the protection of the lifestyle of travellers

throw in inflamatory lanaguage about rounding up people to be shot ( which no one suggested on this thread ) and you see the kind of tactics which are used to silence criticism
Irish Bob, while I am, guilty-as-charged, a fully paid-up member of the Guardian-reading liberal chattering classes (I think my previous posts on these forum make that obvious), your accusation that I have had no contact whatsoever with any Irish travellers is not exactly true.

As I child we always had a few of them in our school. They were generally marginalised and bullied by the other kids, and ignored by the teachers. They never stayed longer than a term. Once I remember being taken to one of their encampments on the outskirts of Cambridge - and even aged 8 or 9 being shocked at the squalor and poverty of the camp. It made a lasting impression on me.

As an adult I have never met a Traveller who wasn't extremely courteous and polite. An acquiantance who works in local government tells me that they get tonnes of referrels from social services, schools and GPs about Traveller communities, but that in reality their communities and families are the some of the most cohesive and resilient around with lower instances of alcholism, drug addiction and abuse than in the general population. So my opinion is not based entirely on what I read in the left-wing press.

I include the extreme bigoted comment as an example of how it is far more socially acceptable in modern Britain to be racist against Irish Travellers than against any other type of minority. I am by no means suggesting you yourself engage in such hate-filled banter.

However I would make the same accusation back at you, that you perhaps know little of the Traveller community, and have based your opinion on what you read/watch in the right-wing press?

@MOS - And no, I don't know any Travellers with a university degree. I dare say there are some, though probably a far fewer proportion than in the general population.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,179 posts, read 35,709,054 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ketabcha View Post
We have groups of them in the US. About 10 years ago there was a clan in a suburb of Ft. Worth, TX and they lived in RVs. A 12 year old boy "borrowed" his uncle's car, loaded it up with other kids from the clan and took a joy ride on the highway. He really did not know how to drive on a highway and he hit another car while going at high speed. All four of the little boys were killed along with the driver of the other car.

There was a very quickly assembled mass at St. Patrick's Cathedral for the 4 kids. It was a closed funeral mass. Then they all picked up and headed out of state.

The Irish Travelers in the US are usually quite sequestered and retain a closed society. They make money doing odd jobs for home owners like replacing a roof or repaving a driveway. They are constantly on the move.
I can vouch for this. We've seen them and had contact with them in East Texas. They approached us and all our rural neighbors trying to redo roofs and driveways. Thankfully, the local news found out about them pretty quickly and did an expose on their shady "business dealings" and after a few weeks, they slunk away somewhere else.

I find them despicable -and I feel sorry for their children, who are victimized from an early age. They seem very much like the "Romanis" of Europe in deportment, dress, lifestyle, and methods of income.

I will never forget a sight I saw in Nurmberg, Germany a few years ago at Christmas. I watched a dark skinned, swarthy man dressed in a flashy manner standing in a doorway in the walking area of the old town. He was drinking something hot and dressed quite warmly in a long, dramatic looking coat and scarf. He was clearly directing a pack of scantily dressed kids with wild hair and running noses to go out and pick pocket people and beg. They would run up to him, give him whatever they had collected, and he would snarl at them and shoo them away back into the crowd.

My mother and I were so upset after watching this a few minutes that we looked all over the place for a police officer -but they're a rare sight in Germany so we never found one.

Disgusting.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth, TX
1,476 posts, read 1,500,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I will never forget a sight I saw in Nurmberg, Germany a few years ago at Christmas. I watched a dark skinned, swarthy man dressed in a flashy manner standing in a doorway in the walking area of the old town. He was drinking something hot and dressed quite warmly in a long, dramatic looking coat and scarf. He was clearly directing a pack of scantily dressed kids with wild hair and running noses to go out and pick pocket people and beg. They would run up to him, give him whatever they had collected, and he would snarl at them and shoo them away back into the crowd.

My mother and I were so upset after watching this a few minutes that we looked all over the place for a police officer -but they're a rare sight in Germany so we never found one.

Disgusting.

Makes me think of Oliver Twist
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:34 AM
 
3,523 posts, read 1,956,841 times
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I'll guarantee one thing.
Any person on here with any notion about Travellers being an oppressed minority or suffering unfair abuse at the hands of the general population would very rapidly change their minds if they were to park their caravan outside your house.
You'd be singing a very different tune in no time at all.
And it wouldn't be around a campfire having your fortune told by Gypsy Rose Lee.
Man I love seing Liberals waking up to reality slapping them around the face.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
9,409 posts, read 9,304,709 times
Reputation: 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalLord View Post

I live in Italy, home to the Vatican. I have a very strong impression that in certain Catholic countries, particularly this one, the concept of 'hypocrisy' is a little more 'flexible' than it is in Protestant countries. I used to scratch my head when I would see movie depictions of vicious mafiosos going to confession, spending lavish amounts on baptisms and confirmations within the family, and getting all sentimental about this or that saint, but no such head-scratching goes on over here.
.

This is OT, but I am half-Italian, half English(?) and I have never encountered Italian-Americans in my area of Mississippi behaving like that. Maybe that's because our ancestors migrated from northern Italy, which is very different culturally from southern Italy and Sicily. Also, we aren't influenced by the "guido" culture of the northeastern U.S.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:43 AM
 
Location: USA
7,778 posts, read 10,070,686 times
Reputation: 11698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roscoe Conkling View Post
I'll guarantee one thing.
Any person on here with any notion about Travellers being an oppressed minority or suffering unfair abuse at the hands of the general population would very rapidly change their minds if they were to park their caravan outside your house.
You'd be singing a very different tune in no time at all.
And it wouldn't be around a campfire having your fortune told by Gypsy Rose Lee.
Man I love seing Liberals waking up to reality slapping them around the face.
Majority of Liberals say nasty things about those who are to the right of what Liberals think and that includes the moderates in the middle, but, so many want to direct how all others think. Their creed of not hurting a minority's feelings isn't applicable when they insult those to their right.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Bay Area
3,910 posts, read 7,696,907 times
Reputation: 4407
Irish Bob is correct, people. The Irish travelers/tinkers are not Roma, Scottish, New agers, or anything of the sort. They are Irish and my husband tells me they had originally been thrown off their land by the English thousands of years ago.

Unfortunately they are discriminated against because of their own criminal behaviour. It's absolutely not to say that there aren't respectful ones, but I actually spent a short time living right next door to a family of partially settled travelers. They'd stare us down when we got home, they'd wake up in the wee hours of the night (and everyone else in the neighborhood) so they could rob the local petrol stations/markets (they weren't the least bit quiet about it) and the children would tear down the newly planted trees in the new housing estate with golf clubs. The children never went to school and the father would drink and drive and plowed into our car one night w/o of course admitting to any wrongdoing. They were just trashy, disrespectful and intimidating to everyone.

Again, it's not to say that there aren't decent and kind travelers (my boy went to school with a couple of very nice travelers kid's ) but they have a terrible reputation overall for stirring up trouble and creating crime and havoc.

Anyone that turns this into an American style political debate about minorities and discrimination obviously doesn't have any experience of knowing their culture.

There are actually Irish travelers in the US and UK (as someone mentioned as well). They are the descendents of the Irish one (not Roma..but they exist here also) and also have a poor reputation for scams and criminal behaviour.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:18 PM
 
3,523 posts, read 1,956,841 times
Reputation: 5107
Quote:
Originally Posted by clongirl View Post
Irish Bob is correct, people. The Irish travelers/tinkers are not Roma, Scottish, New agers, or anything of the sort. They are Irish and my husband tells me they had originally been thrown off their land by the English thousands of years ago.

Unfortunately they are discriminated against because of their own criminal behaviour. It's absolutely not to say that there aren't respectful ones, but I actually spent a short time living right next door to a family of partially settled travelers. They'd stare us down when we got home, they'd wake up in the wee hours of the night (and everyone else in the neighborhood) so they could rob the local petrol stations/markets (they weren't the least bit quiet about it) and the children would tear down the newly planted trees in the new housing estate with golf clubs. The children never went to school and the father would drink and drive and plowed into our car one night w/o of course admitting to any wrongdoing. They were just trashy, disrespectful and intimidating to everyone.

Again, it's not to say that there aren't decent and kind travelers (my boy went to school with a couple of very nice travelers kid's ) but they have a terrible reputation overall for stirring up trouble and creating crime and havoc.

Anyone that turns this into an American style political debate about minorities and discrimination obviously doesn't have any experience of knowing their culture.

There are actually Irish travelers in the US and UK (as someone mentioned as well). They are the descendents of the Irish one (not Roma..but they exist here also) and also have a poor reputation for scams and criminal behaviour.

The Travellers are basically the Nigerians of Europe.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
9,409 posts, read 9,304,709 times
Reputation: 6604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roscoe Conkling View Post
The Travellers are basically the Nigerians of Europe.

There's a pediatrician from Nigeria living in my town who belongs to my church and raises his three sons as a single father (he is divorced). A straight-arrow guy, im my opinion.
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