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Old 01-17-2013, 08:18 AM
 
824 posts, read 1,461,709 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fear&Whiskey View Post

As for the "wouldn't be able to tell a yuppie from an Irish traveller" line. Stop with the comedy.
.
Well, a blond, blue eyed Anglo like Brad Pitt had no problem in the role of an Irish Traveler in the movie Snatch. They are different in a cultural way, but they are as white (Anglo) as they come.

If you are a girl in Afghanistan and you want to go to school, you better pray not to be stoned to death. Children in Colombia live with the fear or bing kidnapped everyday, Albino kids in Africa live with the fear of being mutilated and used in rituals, because some witchdoctor say the limbs of Albino kids cure AIDS, millions of kids all over the world are traded as sexual slaves, people there face the most horrific stuff you could imagine.

What problems faces an Irish Traveler? Some social worker "nagging" them because they donīt send their kids to school? Getting a fine for parking their horses in the street?

Last edited by Javier77; 01-17-2013 at 08:49 AM..
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:47 AM
 
824 posts, read 1,461,709 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britinparis View Post
Historically Irish Travellers did not speak English as their mother tongue. They had their own language, called Shelta, which was closely related to Irish Gaelic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelta
I don't believe it is spoken in its pure form by many people anymore, nowadays Travellers speak a very distinct dialect of English with influences and words from their old language – which can be totally unintelligible to outsiders. Even when speaking standard English they have a very distinct accent that is not easy to hide – they can be distinguished the moment they open their mouths.

Basically your point about the Irish Travellers being lazy and useless because they seemingly have all the opportunities afforded of them as UK/Irish citizens is not true. Anyone who knows anything about this community will know that they face a huge amount of discrimination in the fields of employment, education etc within in the UK. The paradox is that it is far easier for a black or Asian immigrant with hardly any English to become integrated over time in Britain than it is for an Irish Traveller to do the same. The fact that they have been living on the same soil as the English and settled Irish etc for centuries hardly comes into it.




The number of people who speak English as second language in countries where English is not the official language is bigger than the number of people who speak English as their mother tongue in English speaking countries. People take classes of English in places like Japan, Chile, Iceland, all over the world, and most of them wont ever go to live to an English speaking countrie. They do it for many reasons, but one in particular is to gain chances in the job maket and jut the pleasure to learn. In other words, they are motivated

So what is the excuse for an Irish Traveler to have any sort of problem with the English language? Donīt they watch it on tv? Dont they learn it at school? Donīt they have to use it whenever they have to speak to a non Irish Traveler? They have an accent, so what? Evrybody has an accent and it' not the end of the world.


My point is not that they are lazy. My point is that it is weird that X group of people has managed to refuse for centuries any sort of integration into mainstream society, and that X group of people have all the chances in the world, chances other groups could not even dream of.


So that's why they should be studied by anthropologists an learn what went wrong.


Do you agree with me that something went wrong?
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:54 AM
 
Location: London
1,068 posts, read 1,739,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javier77 View Post
Well, a blond, blue eyed Anglo like Brad Pitt had no problem in the role of an Irish Traveler in the movie Snatch. They are different in a cultural way, but they are as white (Anglo) as they come.
Robert De Niro also played a New York Irishman in Goodfellas but he's about as Irish as a meat feast calzone. That's the movies for you. English actors play Roman legionaries all the time. Anyone can be anyone but don't read too much into it on a movie screen would be my advice. Gotta stop with the comedy I implore you!

Never met an Irish traveller that looked like Brad Pitt. His role was entertaining don't get me wrong it's just a film after all but to anyone familiar with the travellers it wasn't a glove that fit him well believe me though he gave it a good go to be fair.

Quote:
If you are a girl in Afghanistan and you want to go to school, you better pray not to be stoned to death. Children in Colombia live with the fear or bing kidnapped everyday, Albino kids in Africa live with the fear of being mutilated and used in rituals, because some witchdoctor say the limbs of Albino kids cure AIDS, millions of kids all over the world are traded as sexual slaves, people there face the most horrific stuff you could imagine.

What problems faces an Irish Traveler? Some social worker "nagging" them because they donīt send their kids to school? Getting a fine for parking their horses in the street?
Irish travellers are not really too dependent on social workers. In fact they tend not to trust outsiders and despite the misconceptions I've read on here are mostly very self-dependent. It is expected of everyone in the family to pull their weight and they do work and many work very hard. They're no angels and I don't dispute that some may not be paying the proper tax or that some travellers may commit benefit fraud or try to maximise how much they can take from the system but this social worker "nagging" image you have in your mind does not square with travellers.

Have you ever tried to nag a traveller? I went to school with Irish travellers and the only person who could tell them anything was their own mother. As for Columbia and Afghanistan whoever claimed that the travellers were ever an endangered species?

They do face prejudices for sure due to their perceived reputation for dishonesty and violence and pub landlords are cautious about allowing them gather in large numbers at their venues but no traveller would make such a drastic comparison as the one you have made.

You have a confused image of the traveller community and to be honest this perception you have of travellers and some kind of faux-victimhood isn't one I recognise at all. In fact the only time you see travellers on the television these days is in glitzy wedding ceremonies on television. For some reason the British public are fascinated with travellers on television these days.

Have got to laugh at the fascination to me they about as fascinating as discussing nuclear physics with my dog.

Last edited by Fear&Whiskey; 01-17-2013 at 12:05 PM..
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:02 PM
 
7,148 posts, read 7,964,702 times
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something like 85% of travellers in ireland are registered as unemployed so in effect they are in receipt of benefits , thats not to say 85% of them dont work , the majority of them work in the black market , beit doing dodgy paint or tar mac jobs

the majority of travellers are completley untrustworthy and ive had a significant amount of dealing with them
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Next stop Antarctica
1,799 posts, read 2,428,777 times
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Why would anyone employ travelers anyway, except for casual work, here today gone tomorrow.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,995 posts, read 11,670,449 times
Reputation: 5580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fear&Whiskey View Post
Robert De Niro also played a New York Irishman in Goodfellas but he's about as Irish as a meat feast calzone. That's the movies for you. English actors play Roman legionaries all the time. Anyone can be anyone but don't read too much into it on a movie screen would be my advice. Gotta stop with the comedy I implore you!

Never met an Irish traveller that looked like Brad Pitt. His role was entertaining don't get me wrong it's just a film after all but to anyone familiar with the travellers it wasn't a glove that fit him well believe me though he gave it a good go to be fair.



Irish travellers are not really too dependent on social workers. In fact they tend not to trust outsiders and despite the misconceptions I've read on here are mostly very self-dependent. It is expected of everyone in the family to pull their weight and they do work and many work very hard. They're no angels and I don't dispute that some may not be paying the proper tax or that some travellers may commit benefit fraud or try to maximise how much they can take from the system but this social worker "nagging" image you have in your mind does not square with travellers.

Have you ever tried to nag a traveller? I went to school with Irish travellers and the only person who could tell them anything was their own mother. As for Columbia and Afghanistan whoever claimed that the travellers were ever an endangered species?

They do face prejudices for sure due to their perceived reputation for dishonesty and violence and pub landlords are cautious about allowing them gather in large numbers at their venues but no traveller would make such a drastic comparison as the one you have made.

You have a confused image of the traveller community and to be honest this perception you have of travellers and some kind of faux-victimhood isn't one I recognise at all. In fact the only time you see travellers on the television these days is in glitzy wedding ceremonies on television. For some reason the British public are fascinated with travellers on television these days.

Have got to laugh at the fascination to me they about as fascinating as discussing nuclear physics with my dog.
Train wreck television..seems a mainstay in the US too.

Wife, son, and I were passing through a town between Dingle and Limerick (Tralee?), and we saw a big horse trading fair going on in the town square. Checked it out. While walking around, we found a lunch spot, we started seeing a bunch of trashy folks stumbling out of a building next door, right into the town plaza, red-faced and shouting at just past noon. They looked just like hillbilly folks in E. Tennessee hollers. Pale, fat, loud, drunk women wearing outrageous clothes a few sizes two small. Red-faced guys pushing each other and getting rowdy. Kids everywhere. I am pretty sure it was a travelers wedding or wake going on. They were definitely a wild bunch. We rolled out of that town shortly thereafter.
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Lakeland, Florida
6,972 posts, read 12,480,117 times
Reputation: 8712
My parents always referred to them as Tinkers. They would come to homes in the Greater Boston area, and tell people their driveways and roofs needed to be repaired. I know my parents had no use for them either in the USA or in Ireland. Unfortunately many residents went along with the recommendation, and paid these people for work that was not very well done. Their money spent for work that was subpar to say the least.

I remember seeing a news special on a large population of Travelers that live in South Carolina. They own Beautiful homes However their society seems rather odd. The children marry very young. The families go off and stake out an area, where they will perform their shotty work on the unsuspected home owner. The law seems well aware of these people and their crooked business. Unfortunately they don't seem to be able to charge them. Perhaps the homeowners don't report the crime or when they do. THey have been given phoney names of the business. Very sad especially when it is done to an elderly person which seems quite common in the Boston Area.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,995 posts, read 11,670,449 times
Reputation: 5580
Here is a kind of view of the wedding I saw. I cannot say it was travelers, but it seemed pretty trashy.

Irish weddings Ŧ All things heinous, trashy, and hilarious in weddings!

I do recall someone wearing something lurid like the lady with the splits down the sides of her tights.

I must admit kind of like the carriage though (could be the Irish Traveler in me)!
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:08 PM
 
3,644 posts, read 8,997,592 times
Reputation: 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javier77 View Post
Well, a blond, blue eyed Anglo like Brad Pitt had no problem in the role of an Irish Traveler in the movie Snatch. They are different in a cultural way, but they are as white (Anglo) as they come.

If you are a girl in Afghanistan and you want to go to school, you better pray not to be stoned to death. Children in Colombia live with the fear or bing kidnapped everyday, Albino kids in Africa live with the fear of being mutilated and used in rituals, because some witchdoctor say the limbs of Albino kids cure AIDS, millions of kids all over the world are traded as sexual slaves, people there face the most horrific stuff you could imagine.

What problems faces an Irish Traveler? Some social worker "nagging" them because they donīt send their kids to school? Getting a fine for parking their horses in the street?
Travelers here usually have blonde or brown hair, a few have black hair. Of course, these are American Irish Travelers, but I doubt they've mixed much because that's looked down upon
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
9,522 posts, read 9,402,418 times
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Considering the small number of Travellers within the population of Ireland and UK and their high rate of endogamy, couldn't that lead to problems of inbreeding?
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