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Old 01-04-2013, 06:11 AM
 
Location: Bangkok, NYC, and LV
2,037 posts, read 2,557,649 times
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I am an intrepid traveler and just returned home from a holiday jaunt to Germany, Spain, Austria, and Holland.

I saw many immigrants, which seem to be relegated to the outskirts of society. They are not integrated, do not wish to be integrated, and the natives complained about the immigrants in nearly every country we went to.

In none of these countries I never saw a non-native police officer or border guard. Only in the UK and France did we see a non white person with a gun acting on behalf of the state.

My question is why do Europeans let in all these immigrants (when their own people can do the work) if they dont like them?

I think that Europe is deeply troubled by not just its stagnant growth but also by its social portrait.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:30 AM
 
Location: American Expat
2,189 posts, read 4,720,727 times
Reputation: 1876
Default bull****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Datafeed View Post
I am an intrepid traveler and just returned home from a holiday jaunt to Germany, Spain, Austria, and Holland.

I saw many immigrants, which seem to be relegated to the outskirts of society. They are not integrated, do not wish to be integrated, and the natives complained about the immigrants in nearly every country we went to.

In none of these countries I never saw a non-native police officer or border guard. Only in the UK and France did we see a non white person with a gun acting on behalf of the state.

My question is why do Europeans let in all these immigrants (when their own people can do the work) if they dont like them?

I think that Europe is deeply troubled by not just its stagnant growth but also by its social portrait.

How does one "see" immigrants?
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:49 AM
 
Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
4,284 posts, read 3,737,752 times
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From reading in Der Spiegel and The Local (both German newspapers with English editions - for when I can't understand what they are saying in German - which happens more than I would like to admit), there does seem to be rising resentment towards Eastern Europeans in Germany. Immigration works well when nations are prospering, but when economic hard times hit - immigrants and Jews are the first to get the blame and become the focal point of frustrations.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Howard County, MD
2,223 posts, read 2,999,940 times
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I can't really speak about those countries, but in the UK it seems to me sometimes that black immigrants are way better integrated into society than in the US.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:20 AM
 
Location: American Expat
2,189 posts, read 4,720,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnbiggs View Post
I can't really speak about those countries, but in the UK it seems to me sometimes that black immigrants are way better integrated into society than in the US.
There are barely any in the U.K. I think 1.5% compared to 14%+ in the U.S. Besides, those are mostly immigrants; in the U.S., they are not. The U.S. dosen't have that many black immigrants. The vast majority of black folks were born in the U.S.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:00 AM
 
Location: the dairyland
1,195 posts, read 1,928,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Datafeed View Post
I saw many immigrants, which seem to be relegated to the outskirts of society. They are not integrated, do not wish to be integrated, and the natives complained about the immigrants in nearly every country we went to.
Sounds just like the situation in the United States. So will the "US fail very soon", too? I don't see how having immigrants leads to the failure of a country.
I also want to add that you can't "see" a large proportion of immigrants for two reasons:
1. Most are probably at work while you do sightseeing. It's only the very small percentage of bums one usually remembers.
2. Many are from other European countries or from the Middle East, so you often can't distinguish them from the native population anyway.

The fact that not many immigrants work as police officers or in other public offices is pretty obvious because those positions usually require the citizenship of the respective country. Also, how do you know that the police officer you saw in Germany isn't a German citizen of Russian descent (see #2)?
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:49 AM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,205,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glucorious View Post
There are barely any in the U.K. I think 1.5% compared to 14%+ in the U.S. Besides, those are mostly immigrants; in the U.S., they are not. The U.S. dosen't have that many black immigrants. The vast majority of black folks were born in the U.S.
Not only were the vast majority born in the US, the vast majority have been living here going back to colonial times

Quote:
Originally Posted by Datafeed View Post
I am an intrepid traveler and just returned home from a holiday jaunt to Germany, Spain, Austria, and Holland.

I saw many immigrants, which seem to be relegated to the outskirts of society. They are not integrated, do not wish to be integrated, and the natives complained about the immigrants in nearly every country we went to.

In none of these countries I never saw a non-native police officer or border guard. Only in the UK and France did we see a non white person with a gun acting on behalf of the state.

My question is why do Europeans let in all these immigrants (when their own people can do the work) if they dont like them?

I think that Europe is deeply troubled by not just its stagnant growth but also by its social portrait.
You're an intrepid traveler, but you've been to Holland. There is no such thing as a country named Holland. UK police also do not carry guns, only special armed response officers do and they do not do routine patrols.

Why do the European countries let these immigrants in? For the same reason the US lets them in, to dilute the pool of labor, dilute the power of organized labor especially, and to drive wages down. More able bodies workers equals less wages, supply and demand
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:59 AM
 
Location: SE UK
7,841 posts, read 6,658,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glucorious View Post
There are barely any in the U.K. I think 1.5% compared to 14%+ in the U.S. Besides, those are mostly immigrants; in the U.S., they are not. The U.S. dosen't have that many black immigrants. The vast majority of black folks were born in the U.S.
I'm not so sure that that is strictly true, I would have thought that a vast majority of ethnic minorities in the country were born in the country.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC
3,849 posts, read 3,976,894 times
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Why recent immigrants (esp. Muslim) aren't particularly well integrated in Europe is a topic worth discussing. But what you saw on holiday and your conclusion of Europe falling very soon... deserving only of the delete button.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Bangkok, NYC, and LV
2,037 posts, read 2,557,649 times
Reputation: 1128
Let's make this very simple:

In America we have officials of very many colors.

I used to work for the Department of State and the guy I worked for was a Foreign Service Officer who was born in Ghana.

A FSO is a diplomat. This means he has a Top Secret Security Clearance.

The European diplomatic corp, having seen many of them--I worked at Embassies and Consulates throughout the world and sometimes went to dip functions and never saw a Euro diplomat (except and Indian Brit) that was not lilly white.

I have seen Middle Eastern Muslim FBI Agents. Are there Turkish Federal Criminal Police Officers. (The German equivalent of the FBI)

I have seen a black station chief for the Agency (CIA). I doubt there is a black AIVD chief for the Netherlands.

I have see a Mexican American General Officer at ISAF. I have never in my entire 14 months working at ISAF Headquarters saw an officer above Capt (Army not Navy) that was not white.

I met one of my black mates there from Afghanistan and people would give him funny looks when he sat down to breakfast in the 4 star hotels we stayed in. Not like get outtta here, but like kinda shocked that we had the money to pay 12 Euros per drink at sky bar in Austria.

Europe does not economically and socially integrate non-natives like the us does.

The pretty eastern euro women serve drinks and work the bar while the African dudes stand around and look shady or are bar backs. The Turkish or Muslim dudes work in Kebab shops or do other illegal stuff.
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