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Old 04-25-2013, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Vancouver, Canada
3,717 posts, read 5,247,638 times
Reputation: 1180

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a child does not NEED father and mother, i grew up with only my mum and im fine... and with 50% divorce rate here your point is just stupid.

so a single parent is fine, but 2 parents fo same sex are not? haha sorry but that retarded. "a fair number of gays are against gay marriage" yeah like 1%, usualy over 50 who grew up in overly religious and backwards place or country.

Last edited by Rozenn; 04-25-2013 at 04:21 PM.. Reason: Rude
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Vancouver, Canada
3,717 posts, read 5,247,638 times
Reputation: 1180
as for wadym... you lack sersious education on homosexuality, just like other Russians and Ukrainians who know NOTHING about it and are just against it because they dont like how it looks. Thankfully west is more civilised and tolerant.
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:50 AM
 
5,806 posts, read 11,824,327 times
Reputation: 4661
+ 1 Godwin point for Glucorious (which means - 1 point in argumentative relevance)
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Strasbourg, France
44 posts, read 91,971 times
Reputation: 93
I've neutral relation to the gay people, although I don't wanna have friendship with gays, and of course I don't support adoption, because it will impact to the child's mind. Why the gay people need adoption? To grew up new gays?

Last edited by André89; 04-25-2013 at 10:07 AM..
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,567 posts, read 12,763,590 times
Reputation: 9398
If they want children let them have their own. Hire a surrogate liberal mother and pay her the usual 10 thousand dollars...extract some sperm and there you go...Your OWN child! Adopting is not fair...If gay couples with disposable income can hire a high end lawyer they can shop for kids...usually the unwanted or the children taken from the poor by child protection agents. But - I am sure they will want something nice - like a blue eyed blonde kid? After all stereo typically speaking they do like nice things.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:10 AM
 
5,806 posts, read 11,824,327 times
Reputation: 4661
Default if society is ill, let's make it sicker

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrix542 View Post
a child does not NEED father and mother, i grew up with only my mum and im fine... and with 50% divorce rate here your point is just stupid.

so a single parent is fine, but 2 parents fo same sex are not? haha sorry but that retarded. "a fair number of gays are against gay marriage" yeah like 1%, usualy over 50 who grew up in overly religious and backwards place or country.
Well, that's basically the gist of your message (beside insulting words like "bigot" which demonstrate nothing). Couples are divorcing, chidren are ducated by their mother only (in the ghetto usually),
so let's accelarate the speed of the demolition of civility in society. Did you know (check data) that children educated by only one parent (the mother usually) end up (once again it's an average there is always the exceptional individual who will succeed against all odds) being less successful - much less!- than those who had the luck to be educated by a loving family ? (both parents , even grandparents, as Hillary Clinton said : "it takes a village to educate a kid").

Last edited by Rozenn; 04-25-2013 at 04:21 PM.. Reason: Orphaned - Response to edited post
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:20 AM
 
2,234 posts, read 5,464,349 times
Reputation: 2081
Talking Huh? Sore loser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pigeonhole View Post
+ 1 Godwin point for Glucorious (which means - 1 point in argumentative relevance)
You might not like the facts, but they're still true. Oui.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
If they want children let them have their own. Hire a surrogate liberal mother and pay her the usual 10 thousand dollars...extract some sperm and there you go...Your OWN child! Adopting is not fair...If gay couples with disposable income can hire a high end lawyer they can shop for kids...usually the unwanted or the children taken from the poor by child protection agents. But - I am sure they will want something nice - like a blue eyed blonde kid? After all stereo typically speaking they do like nice things.
They should actually adopt Russian orphans and save them from death. Sky high infant mortality, high rate of death among young adults ( alcoholism etc.). Plenty of lives could be saved.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,032 posts, read 24,552,134 times
Reputation: 20164
Quote:
Originally Posted by pigeonhole View Post
@ Mooseketer :
You can argue all you want and try to demonize and even restrict the freedoms of those who oppose gay marriage, (you are even ready to send them to jail and when one knows the infra human conditions in French jails- where homosexual rape is frequent by the way-it tells a lot about your respect of human rights).
But facts are facts and and the way you present homosexuality with rose coloured glasses -frankly that makes me sad for you.
- Fact n° 1 : to say that the whole LGBT community is in favour of gay marriage is a fallacy. A fair number of homosexuals are against gay marriage, amongthem one of the founder of the French equivalent of the US Christopher street movement, another one was at the head of the demonstrations against GM.
- Fact n° 2 : those who are in favour do not hide the fact that if they want to marry , it's to adopt children or have access to in vitro fertilization. They don't care if the child will grow without father or mother as long as they can satisfy they "right to have a child" . That's gross ! That's selfish! A child needs his dad and his mama.

Fact n° 3 : gay people are among the wealthiest in society, in the upper revenue brackets. They fancy to marry and have children because they crave bourgeois respectability. And they don't give a damn if thus doing they put society helter skelter. "My right, my love, my pleasure" could be thier motto / whats "progressive" about this?
quite the contrary as Sigmund Freud would put it it's "regressive"!
How is it "progressive" to give the right to a privileged few to buy the babies of poor mothers that they will pay to get pregnant and then after 12 months give the baby to them ? It's a monstrosity!

Now if gays want to a civil union which would be a specific gay "marriage" without the "right to children", I'm all for it of course!

Well I guess Gay people who are are against Gay marriage don't have to marry... Simple. Problem solved.


I have no problem with Gay people adopting. So your point simply means bubkes to me. I was raised by a single Father, my Mother being shall we say not someone who really ought to have children. I do not feel deprived.


The most important thing for a Child is to feel loved, accepted, wanted and to be respected and encouraged to blossom and educated to become a productive member of society. Mixed sex couples can do wonders , so can same sex couples. Parents come in different shapes, sex and sizes and sex combinations. Loving adults is what counts, good role models. Parenting success is a mixture of a myriad of things.

Most kids do not care who loves them as long as they loved and cared for. Grand-Parents can do as good a job as a Mum and Dad for example.

One single father or mother can be as effective as two parents. It depends on the parents and general circumstances of the environment a child will grow in. Single mothers tend to be demonised in our society but what we really mean is single POOR uneducated Mothers who have little to no support and do not have the tools to provide financially, emotionally or socially for their children. Social deprivation is indeed a huge problem when it comes to single parenthood.

But then again in that kind of environment many two parents families still struggle and fail.

I know a few Gay couples with Kids, their kids are all highly functioning emotionally and socially, all are doing extremely well at school and academically as well as socially. The problem lies not with the Gay couple but with bigots and bullies who will make a child feel like a freak. Time to ostracise the bullies and bigots rather than the kids of Gay children.


Most of the "homosexual" rape in jails , French or otherwise is perpetrated by Heterosexuals by the way. Get your facts straight, Like all rapes it is about power first and foremost not about sex. Sexual violence as punishment, same in war torn countries where rape is a tool commonly used by people who are very much heterosexual to terrorise victims into submission. I do not condone rape and the state should deal with it. And yes I do care about Human Rights. I have been working for Amnesty and other human rights organisations since I was 13. Human rights abuses are rife in most prisons, a terrible and sad fact of life. All I can do is lobby to try and lessen those, I am not God, I cannot stop evil men doing evil things. What about your contempt for the rights of Gay people to be given equality before the law.

If you break the law you go to jail. If I decided to break the law I would end up in jail why should a bigotted mayor be different ? Perhaps they should get another job if they cannot even abide by the Law of the country they claim to serve. How can you wear the tricolore stripes if you blatantly refuse to serve and obey the law of the country ? It would be like a judge deciding which piece of legislation to abide by or not...

If they want to protest it that is their prerogative. Why they should be treated differently than anyone else is beyond me. Everyone should be equal before the law.


Even if you are right and Gay people only seek to marry to be socially accepted into the conformist bourgeois mindest of society what it that a problem ? Marriage is after all a conformist notion for ALL people getting married as well as a way to achieve equality before the law. If I am entitled to marry then so should any Gay couple. My sexual orientation is no more superior than my Gay friends'.

And how grandiosely Bourgeois and dare I say reactionary of you to be so opposed to Gay Marriage. I guess you are far more Bourgeois than you claim to be. You always seem so eager to distance yourself from the snooty French Bourgeoisie and their appalling snobbery and social regressive attitudes and yet you sound like something from "Madame Figaro" or "La Croix".... How ironic. Denouncing those people and yet espousing their views seems a little hypocritical does it not ?

And I feel rather sad for you too. I find prejudiced people rather pathetic , and can never fathom what could possibly motivate a seemingly intelligent person to deny others equality before the law.

Don't like Gay marriage ? Then don't get married to a Guy. If someone was forcing you to marry another man I would be the first to jump to your defense and protect your right to being heterosexual..... But until then a little humanity and common sense would not hurt.


I obviously gave you more credit than you deserved. I thought you were better than this. More evolved. I guess all the rants and diatribes were actually a pretty good indication of you as a human being. You live and learn I guess.

The ignore button beckons. I am very ill at the moment and do not need the aggro. I shall spare my blood pressure.

Last edited by Mooseketeer; 04-25-2013 at 10:37 AM..
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,567 posts, read 12,763,590 times
Reputation: 9398
The only problem I have is the abuse of the adoption system. A lot of kids become orphaned economically. It just seems that strangers with money might trump the rights of those who are poor. If a person gives up a child for so-called economic reasons and a professional gay couple take that child through adoption....it just does not feel right in my mind...The natural parents should not be encouraged to dispose of a child into a system because they are poor...Poverty must be addressed more seriously than this issue.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:29 AM
 
2,234 posts, read 5,464,349 times
Reputation: 2081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
The only problem I have is the abuse of the adoption system. A lot of kids become orphaned economically. It just seems that strangers with money might trump the rights of those who are poor. If a person gives up a child for so-called economic reasons and a professional gay couple take that child through adoption....it just does not feel right in my mind...The natural parents should not be encouraged to dispose of a child into a system because they are poor...Poverty must be addressed more seriously than this issue.
This has nothing to do with gay people, at all.

You want poor people to adopt them? That's not gonna work. Duh. You need money to raise a child. It's always been the same, and always will be. It's common sense.
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