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Not sure if this belongs in Legal Immigration (just for USA?):
Anyone have any experience with the jure sanguinis policy for "ancestral" Italians to re-claim their Italian citizenship? What were your experiences, did you go through a lawyer? How much information did you have on the "blood line" that you claimed a part of? I'm (American) considering jumping through the hoops for various reasons, and just want to get an idea of what I'm getting into.
Not sure if this belongs in Legal Immigration (just for USA?):
Anyone have any experience with the jure sanguinis policy for "ancestral" Italians to re-claim their Italian citizenship? What were your experiences, did you go through a lawyer? How much information did you have on the "blood line" that you claimed a part of? I'm (American) considering jumping through the hoops for various reasons, and just want to get an idea of what I'm getting into.
No lawyer is needed.
However, you may need to establish a relationship with a specialized private company with people on the ground in Italy who can help you retrieve birth, marriage and death documentation as appropriate, unless you yourself can retrieve what documentation you need in Italy.
Similar for US federal/state/county/municipal/court institutions in the US: you will need to retrieve all US immigration, birth, marriage and death documentation, plus apostille and translation in some cases.
You can go as far back as your great-grandfather, so that would be four generations of documentation or five if you have children: it could take a year, maybe two, to retrieve it all. The rules change a bit, becoming more flexible and easier, if going back to grandparents or parents.
In any case, the whole process of retrieving all the documentation, having the appropriate apostilles, and doing the appropriate translations could cost several hundred to around two thousand dollars, or perhaps more if you have a lot of apostilles and complicated translations and cannot do them yourself (I wound up doing my own translations after a translation company did a poor job, make sure you know the difference between a good and bad translation).
You also need to establish a relationship with the Italian consulate with jurisdiction in your region of the US: you have to set up a citizenship interview appointment which could take about a year by which time you need to have all your documentation in order.
As a result, make sure that you have the real possibility of retrieving all the necessary documentation before even thinking about making an appointment. That means contacting all federal/state/county/municipal/court institutions that may store documentation relevant to your case and finding out the rules and procedures for obtaining certified copies; if some of the people involved are still alive, you will need their cooperation, legal and otherwise.
If you pass muster at the consular appointment, it could take up to another year to receive a decision.
The people at my consulate were friendly and efficient. That may or may not be the case in other consulates.
However, you may need to establish a relationship with a specialized private company with people on the ground in Italy who can help you retrieve birth, marriage and death documentation as appropriate, unless you yourself can retrieve what documentation you need in Italy.
....
The people at my consulate were friendly and efficient. That may or may not be the case in other consulates.
Good Luck!
Wow thanks, bale. I have decided to go through a private company to get the Italian documentation and translations. You are absolutely right about creating a relationship with the consulate, I will keep that in mind. Bale, would you be able to tell me how much weight is given to one's ability to speak/write decent Italian during this process, or more specifically even during the interview if granted? I am taking up Italian for the first time, my third language, and am thrilled to dive into it. But it would also be great to have a clue what is expected. Thanks again.
would you be able to tell me how much weight is given to one's ability to speak/write decent Italian during this process, or more specifically even during the interview if granted?
None. During my interview, we spoke in English and the lady doing the interview was surprised when she realized that I speak Italian.
As mentioned, more important is to know that you have good translations of the documentation, in particular the ones that will be registered in the "comune" that they assign you (certainly your birth, also your marriage certificate and children's birth certificates if married and/or children, perhaps a divorce decree, possibly also your police and any legal records), usually the last one of residence of your forefather who left Italy, assuming that you get that far in the process: I am pretty sure that they would reject bad translations of those documents, and I am glad that I was able to translate them myself, saving big complications, time, and money.
If you already have experience in learning foreign languages, especially a Romance language, then you should have no problem with Italian.
None. During my interview, we spoke in English and the lady doing the interview was surprised when she realized that I speak Italian.
As mentioned, more important is to know that you have good translations of the documentation, in particular the ones that will be registered in the "comune" that they assign you (certainly your birth, also your marriage certificate and children's birth certificates if married and/or children, perhaps a divorce decree, possibly also your police and any legal records), usually the last one of residence of your forefather who left Italy, assuming that you get that far in the process: I am pretty sure that they would reject bad translations of those documents, and I am glad that I was able to translate them myself, saving big complications, time, and money.
If you already have experience in learning foreign languages, especially a Romance language, then you should have no problem with Italian.
Not sure if this belongs in Legal Immigration (just for USA?):
Anyone have any experience with the jure sanguinis policy for "ancestral" Italians to re-claim their Italian citizenship? What were your experiences, did you go through a lawyer? How much information did you have on the "blood line" that you claimed a part of? I'm (American) considering jumping through the hoops for various reasons, and just want to get an idea of what I'm getting into.
I see that the Italian laws are similar, and more generous, than the Spanish laws (that don't include great-grandparents).
The real important document is the one that states that your father was born out of a Italian father/mother....not a naturalized American citizen. The document must be issued by the US and must be legalized by the Italian Embassy. Once you demonstrate "continuity", the rest of the process is automatic.
I see that the Italian laws are similar, and more generous, than the Spanish laws (that don't include great-grandparents).
The real important document is the one that states that your father was born out of a Italian father/mother....not a naturalized American citizen. The document must be issued by the US and must be legalized by the Italian Embassy. Once you demonstrate "continuity", the rest of the process is automatic.
In the case of a great-grandfather, you have to demonstrate that your grandfather was born before your great-grandfather became a naturalized US citizen. Usually that goes back to the 1920s-1930s period, and at that time COUNTY courts administered immigration matters. Hence, the first step is to determine whether your great-grandfather became a naturalized US citizen and, if so, when. To do that, you must provide a court document probably from the COUNTY which recorded the naturalization or contact the appropriate US federal government agency (can't remember which one right now) for a document stating that there is no naturalization record. If your great-grandfather indeed became a naturalized citizen, then you must provide a COUNTY court document with the date of naturalization and compare that to your grandfather's the date of birth.
That is one link in the chain of continuity going back three generations.
In the sense that Italy, like most or all of continental Europe, operates under codified civil law (Roman law/Theodosian/Justinianic/Napoleonic code), rather than common law like in the UK/US, the process is indeed automatic provided that you demonstrate in documentation, in accordance with law, all the links in the chain of continuity, and, once you have all the documentation in order, the opinion of the person conducting the citizenship interview doesn't matter. What matters is whether you have satisfied the criteria of the law as written.
In the case of a great-grandfather, you have to demonstrate that your grandfather was born before your great-grandfather became a naturalized US citizen. Usually that goes back to the 1920s-1930s period, and at that time COUNTY courts administered immigration matters. Hence, the first step is to determine whether your great-grandfather became a naturalized US citizen and, if so, when. To do that, you must provide a court document probably from the COUNTY which recorded the naturalization or contact the appropriate US federal government agency (can't remember which one right now) for a document stating that there is no naturalization record. If your great-grandfather indeed became a naturalized citizen, then you must provide a COUNTY court document with the date of naturalization and compare that to your grandfather's the date of birth.
That is one link in the chain of continuity going back three generations.
In the sense that Italy, like most or all of continental Europe, operates under codified civil law (Roman law/Theodosian/Justinianic/Napoleonic code), rather than common law like in the UK/US, the process is indeed automatic provided that you demonstrate in documentation, in accordance with law, all the links in the chain of continuity, and, once you have all the documentation in order, the opinion of the person conducting the citizenship interview doesn't matter. What matters is whether you have satisfied the criteria of the law as written.
Good Luck!
Thanks again. Too bad I can't rep you again yet. I did read somewhere that the naturalization records could be under federal jurisdiction, or would have been earlier, say pre-1906... anyway I will research it more.
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