Germany sold out Europe with the Euro

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by PacoMartin

Largest banknote pre transition
€29.35 Greek drachma
€31.96 Estonian kroon
€34.17 Cypriot pound
€41.73 Slovenian tolar
€46.59 Maltese lira
€49.88 Portuguese escudo
€51.65 Italian lira (two years prior to Euro introduced a 500,000 lira note worth €258.23)
€60.10 Spanish peseta
€63.49 Irish pound
€76.22 French franc
€76.22 Monegasque franc
€123.95 Luxembourgish franc
€165.97 Slovak koruna
€168.19 Finnish markka

€247.89 Belgian franc
€363.36 Austrian schilling
€453.78 Dutch guilder
€511.29 German mark

I did point out that some of the other Germanic countries also had large value banknotes. Latvia has a banknote worth €711 which circulates in very small quantities and probably entirely within the borders.

But these banknotes were in relatively small quantities (even the German 1000 Mark). By insisting that they be inserted into the European banking system it guaranteed that they would circulate internationally. Now there are €500 banknotes worth hundreds of billions of Euros in circulation.

They secured the currency by catering to organized criminal organizations. The responsible thing would have been to print a banknote worth no more than €100 to encourage people to do transactions electronically.

[PacoMartin]

I was hoping to get a more responsible responses to this topic, so I am reviving it. I was able to dig out some statistics as to how many banknotes worth more than 300€ were circulating in 2000 relative to how many 500€ banknotes are circulating today (over 500% increase).

===========================================
On 1 Jan 2001, a year prior to the intro to the intro of the Euro, the 12 member nations were circulating 380€ billion in banknotes of national currencies (1083€ billion as of December 2015). Three nations were circulating about a third of the value of their currency in mega-banknotes.

Mega banknotes in national currency worth more than 300€ apiece
1000 German Mark 89 million banknotes, 82 million population in 2000, worth of banknote 511.29 €
1000 Dutch Guilder 13 million banknotes, 16 million population in 2000, worth of banknote 453.78 €
5000 Austrian Schillings 14 million banknotes, 8 million population in 2000, worth of banknotes 363.36 €
Total 116 million mega-banknotes

Large value banknotes may be convenient, but they have a strong potential to be used for criminal activity. In the year 2000 the Royal Canadian Mounted Police prevailed in persuading the Canadian government to discontinue it's CAD$1000 banknote. Even today there is close to a billion dollars in thousand dollar bills circulating among the criminal elite in Canada. They are still valid banknotes, but to use them is to invite unwelcome suspicion.

The Germans in particular did not want to give up their large value banknotes. But most of Europe did not have a high value banknote worth nearly as much
Highest Value Banknote expressed in Euros
247.89€ Belgian franc
168.19€ Finnish Markka
126.97€ Irish Pound (not in common use)
123.95€ Luxembourgish franc
76.22€ French franc
60.10€ Spanish peseta
51.65€ Italian Lira (banknote worth 5x as much introduced last 2 years)
49.88€ Portuguese escudo
29.35 € Greek drachma

Naturally, the European Central Bank ignored caution and introduced a 500€ banknote.

But in the 14 years, starting with 116 million mega banknotes from the three countries the European Central Bank is now circulating over 600 million 500€ banknotes, where most of them are being used for criminal activity. In particular they fuel the drug cartels in the Southern European countries that had no mega banknotes before the Euro.

The bank was extremely irresponsible to create this culture. It was, of course, the fastest way to grow the Euro, but at a huge cost in violence and drug smuggling. They started with 380€ billion in all banknotes of every denomination in the year 2000, to the point now where there are over 300€ billion solely in 500€ banknotes in circulation.

[SkyDenizen]

I'm perfectly happy with the Euro currency and wouldn't like to go back to the Franc. The Euro couldn't be perfect but that's fantastic to be able to go in Belgium, Germany or Spain without having to switch to another currency in a bank.
Only the old farts and some nationalists want to leave the euro area.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by SkyDenizen

I'm perfectly happy with the Euro currency and wouldn't like to go back to the Franc.

But specifically this thread is not a challenge to the Euro, but the UK was very upset about the 500€ banknote. The largest banknote in UK is 50GBP=66€. They have banned the buying and selling of the 500€ banknote in Britain.

The largest banknote in francs was worth
76.22€ -> 500 French francs (300 million pieces in 2000)
247.89€ -> 10,000 Belgian francs (27.5 million pieces in 2000)
123.95€ -> 5,000 Luxembourgish francs (610 thousand pieces in 2000)

It is not just that the 500€ exists, because it is the same value as the 1000 DM banknote which has been existence for over 4 decades. But the issue is that there were less than a hundred million 1000DM banknotes, and now there are over six hundred million 500€ banknotes.

Large scale criminal or despotic organizations function much easier with large value banknotes. It's the main reason Canada eliminated their $1000 banknote in 2000, and USA has not printed a $500, $1000, $5000 or $10000 banknote since 1945.

Taking it to another level, Sweden has eliminated 92% of their 1000SEK = 107.7€ banknotes since 2001. That is way too extreme for Euro-zone who still uses their 100€ banknotes routinely.

Singapore has a 10,000SGD = 6,458€ , but there are not as many pieces, and they tend not to circulate outside of Southeast Asia. Switzerland has 1000CHF = 905€ banknote, but although many probably circulate outside of Switzerland there are not hundreds of millions of them.

[Ariete]

So what? OC can use bitcoin instead for transactions. I think the larger issue is organised crime itself and not the bills they use. An AK-47/74 weight 4 kilos, how much do a €100 bill weight, 2 grams? And 2000 €100 bills are easier to conceal.

[elnina]

I tried to restart the topic with a less incendiary title, but the moderator closed it.
I was hoping to get a more responsible responses to this topic, so I am reviving it.

You started already many threads about the same topic, OP. Cross-posted the same stuff on other forums. Not giving up? Kinda obsessive by now...

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by elnina

Not giving up? Kinda obsessive by now...

Possibly!
500 euro note - why criminals love it so
Time to pull the plug on the ‘bin Laden’ 500 euro note – Bank of America
500 euro notes withdrawn over organised crime fears
Killing "Bin Laden" (The Banknote): Should We Eliminate the 500-Euro Bill?

I think of it as one of the most horrific crimes committed by government, with wide eyed intent to share profits with the criminal underworld.

I am always surprised at the level of response that people make. Like suggesting that 5 billion dollars of very unstable bitcoins can be used by organized crime as a substitute for over $300 bilion in high denomination banknotes.

Or suggesting it is OK because the German Mark had a banknote of the same value. How do you compare 90 million banknotes circulating in Germany to 600 million banknotes circulating all over Europe, Middle East, and Africa.