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Old 09-28-2013, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Holland
824 posts, read 1,243,428 times
Reputation: 1362

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Quote:
Originally Posted by barneyg View Post
Is there a rising extreme left wing movement in Greece, looking all kinds of crazy with the hammer and sickle, that we don't know about?

I'd like to hear your argument that the "extreme left" is gaining ground in Western Europe.
If you like to read things that I did not say, please feel free to do so. But don't expect me to prove things that you think I said but never did say.

I'll remind what I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyAndRugby View Post
How come all these people who worry about the right wing never worry about the left wing and the extreme left wing? And why do they always ignore why so called right wing groups and/or fascists come to rise again and again and again?
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Old 09-29-2013, 09:42 AM
 
2,895 posts, read 5,105,381 times
Reputation: 3663
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyAndRugby View Post
If you like to read things that I did not say, please feel free to do so. But don't expect me to prove things that you think I said but never did say.

I'll remind what I said:
I see you like wordplay, so I'll answer your question more directly: people who worry about the extreme right wing do not worry about the extreme left wing for two (I believe valid) reasons:

1) whenever there are reports of pseudo-political groups advocating violence and exclusion against specific groups of people because of their color of their skin or their ethnic origin, those groups always qualify as "extreme right wing". Hence my comment -- I'd be outraged as well if an extreme left wing group attributed all of its country's woes to ethnic scapegoats (Jews! Gypsies! Muslims!) and in the meantime adapted its official political stance and aesthetic image from Stalin. I'd be outraged, really, but since you asked "why are people never outraged when the left does those things", I believe the onus is on you to link to such a story and illustrate how "people are not outraged".

2) extreme right wingers are responsible for WWII.
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Old 09-29-2013, 01:27 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,915 posts, read 24,567,553 times
Reputation: 9708
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevxu View Post
Part of Mussolini's entry in the 1932 Italian Encyclopedia entry on Fascism (public domain, no copyright restrictions):

"Fascism denies that the majority, by the simple fact that it is a majority, can direct human society; it denies that numbers alone can govern by means of a periodical consultation, and it affirms the immutable, beneficial, and fruitful inequality of mankind, which can never be permanently leveled through the mere operation of a mechanical process such as universal suffrage....
...Fascism denies, in democracy, the absur[d] conventional untruth of political equality dressed out in the garb of collective irresponsibility, and the myth of "happiness" and indefinite progress...."

Internet History Sourcebooks
Interesting definition, kind of applies to many Americans as well, judging from threads on how to keep certain groups of society from voting, how to stop affirmative action, etc.
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:53 AM
 
4,454 posts, read 4,586,383 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
It all comes down to fear, and the ruling elite's inability to take that (often very justified) fear away.
Perhaps but I'd also add hate there too. It's no doubt a prime quality as thoe parties organize their stance against the established political order within their countries. These parties do not intend to set up nice little ice cream and sundae shops on corners. They have other things on their minds unfortunately brought on by their xenophobia during these troubling times. They simply let their hate and vitriol ride and they know they will get all the 'time' in various media.
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Old 09-30-2013, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Holland
824 posts, read 1,243,428 times
Reputation: 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by barneyg View Post
I see you like wordplay, so I'll answer your question more directly: people who worry about the extreme right wing do not worry about the extreme left wing for two (I believe valid) reasons:

1) whenever there are reports of pseudo-political groups advocating violence and exclusion against specific groups of people because of their color of their skin or their ethnic origin, those groups always qualify as "extreme right wing". Hence my comment -- I'd be outraged as well if an extreme left wing group attributed all of its country's woes to ethnic scapegoats (Jews! Gypsies! Muslims!) and in the meantime adapted its official political stance and aesthetic image from Stalin. I'd be outraged, really, but since you asked "why are people never outraged when the left does those things", I believe the onus is on you to link to such a story and illustrate how "people are not outraged".

2) extreme right wingers are responsible for WWII.
1) Let's review that. Germany's Rote Armee Fraction; Italy's Red Brigades. I'm pretty sure every western European country has had to suffer under the terror of extreme left wing.

2) NO, NO and NO. There is a multitude of factors that caused world war II. But if you want to play that game, how many people lost their lives dues to extreme left winger Stalin, Mao, the rules of North Korea and Cuba?
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Old 09-30-2013, 08:34 PM
 
2,895 posts, read 5,105,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyAndRugby View Post
1) Let's review that. Germany's Rote Armee Fraction; Italy's Red Brigades. I'm pretty sure every western European country has had to suffer under the terror of extreme left wing.

2) NO, NO and NO. There is a multitude of factors that caused world war II. But if you want to play that game, how many people lost their lives dues to extreme left winger Stalin, Mao, the rules of North Korea and Cuba?
1) I agree but aren't those examples irrelevant to the point that you were trying to make? Let's review the sequence of events here... (a) OP worries about the far right in Europe today.. (b) you come here and say "how come all these people never worry about the left".. (c) I ask "who should we worry about today".. (d) you answer with examples of groups that no longer exist? What's your point here?

2) I'm not playing the "who is worse" game. Is it your claim that Hitler was just one of a multitude of factors that directly caused WWII? If so, I think we're done here.
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Holland
824 posts, read 1,243,428 times
Reputation: 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by barneyg View Post
1) I agree but aren't those examples irrelevant to the point that you were trying to make? Let's review the sequence of events here... (a) OP worries about the far right in Europe today.. (b) you come here and say "how come all these people never worry about the left".. (c) I ask "who should we worry about today".. (d) you answer with examples of groups that no longer exist? What's your point here?
My point is that those who are (always) afraid of far right are hypocrites. At best. They only want to see one side, turn a blind eye to the other. AND they continuously ignore the reasons behind the increase (perceived or real) of rar right.

A secondary point would be that ALL extreme groups are dangerous, not just far left or far right. In Europe however, I think that far left is far more dangerous. Those groups go largely uninvested, and do not nearly draw as much media exposure and have far more sympathisers than the far right.


Quote:
Originally Posted by barneyg View Post
2) I'm not playing the "who is worse" game. Is it your claim that Hitler was just one of a multitude of factors that directly caused WWII? If so, I think we're done here.
So what were you trying to say when you blamed extreme right wingers for WWII?
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Old 10-01-2013, 01:59 AM
 
Location: West Los Angeles and Rancho Palos Verdes
13,563 posts, read 15,490,042 times
Reputation: 14036
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyAndRugby View Post
How come all these people who worry about the right wing never worry about the left wing and the extreme left wing? And why do they always ignore why so called right wing groups and/or fascists come to rise again and again and again?
I was wondering the same thing. How many so-called "right-wing" groups support continued immigration into the countries of Europe and want to continue to devalue low and middle income earners, not to mention Balkanize all of Europe into an unrecognizable patchwork quilt of feuding cultures and remake Europe into simply an atomized free market zone, devoid of any spirituality whatsoever that favors Europeans?
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