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Old 11-09-2013, 01:31 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,866 posts, read 5,243,291 times
Reputation: 3425

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyAndRugby View Post
Again, in ALL of Europe? It differs vastly. I would not say that one does not need a car in Holland. Maybe an American tourist mught say so, but actually living here, it is not that way.

By the way, the train system is a nightmare if you have to get to work (Holland) and we do not have high speeds railways.
I know plenty of people who don't own a car and manage just fine. I don't have a car myself and I use public transport every day. The Netherlands has one of the most elaborate and most used rail networks in the world so I don't quite understand what you're talking about.
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Old 11-09-2013, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Holland
788 posts, read 1,249,221 times
Reputation: 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
I know plenty of people who don't own a car and manage just fine. I don't have a car myself and I use public transport every day. The Netherlands has one of the most elaborate and most used rail networks in the world so I don't quite understand what you're talking about.
Let those people have my job, or that of an external financial auditor, or just work in an area where public transportation does not take them.

Oh wait, I guess all those people in traffic jams all day have got it all wrong, they should just take the train, after all it takes you anywhere. Except that it doesn't.
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Old 11-09-2013, 05:10 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
Reputation: 9728
I am afraid in Europe (and probably not only there) a high standard of living usually goes hand in hand with a high cost of living.

Standard of living means different things to different people. A German will have different priorities in life than an American.

At the basis of a high standard of living is a low unemployment rate, which usually depends on a solid competitive economy (could also rely on a strong agricultural sector, though. Sri Lanka used to be an example, but I guess it has gone downhill there as well). In such societies there tends to be little inequality and crime, which is important for a high standard of living, at least to most Europeans. Americans don't seem to be bothered by rampant inequality etc., though.

No idea how these things are in Israel.

In Europe a high standard of living - life in general actually - is often very unspectacular. Some find that boring, others reassuring...
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Old 11-10-2013, 11:43 AM
 
5,781 posts, read 11,873,729 times
Reputation: 4661
US middle class : big houses, big SUVs, big fridges , big cooking ranges, a lot of personal room for the individual.
European middle class : smaller houses, smaller cars , fridges, house appliances, etc, more crowded space for each

I'm not comparing health , welfare systems, or the general organization of society here ( banking system, working conditions,environmental policies, public investment or the lack thereof, etc). The differences here are maybe in favor of Europe, it's another debate but there is one point in which the proponents of the grass is greener (in Europe) persuasion are wrong : the quality of life of the middle class is obviously higher in the USA and Canada, and it's crucial, because as everybody knows, the middle class is the backbone of developed societies..(some will answer that because of the crisis, the middle class is dwindling in America : rest assured it's the same in Europe , in spite of the so called "welfare state"!
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Old 11-10-2013, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Leeds, UK
22,112 posts, read 29,585,134 times
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You're right - the American middle-classes have more spending power and a lower cost of living to boot. Not sure I'd trade my life here for a life in the US though.
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Old 11-10-2013, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Israel
72 posts, read 138,129 times
Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by pigeonhole View Post
US middle class : big houses, big SUVs, big fridges , big cooking ranges, a lot of personal room for the individual.
European middle class : smaller houses, smaller cars , fridges, house appliances, etc, more crowded space for each

I'm not comparing health , welfare systems, or the general organization of society here ( banking system, working conditions,environmental policies, public investment or the lack thereof, etc). The differences here are maybe in favor of Europe, it's another debate but there is one point in which the proponents of the grass is greener (in Europe) persuasion are wrong : the quality of life of the middle class is obviously higher in the USA and Canada, and it's crucial, because as everybody knows, the middle class is the backbone of developed societies..(some will answer that because of the crisis, the middle class is dwindling in America : rest assured it's the same in Europe , in spite of the so called "welfare state"!
Yea I know that life quality in the US is very high but there are counties in Europe with higher life quality ...I know many people for example who will prefer to live in Europe and not in the US..
I know people who moved from the states to Germany for example ...I think that many people like living in Europe and the way of life in Europe which in my opinion is different from the US...
I think that living in Europe is much more Healthier and less stressed than in the US...
People are more relaxed... And Europe in my opinion is also very interesting and beautiful continent
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Old 11-10-2013, 12:20 PM
 
57 posts, read 181,658 times
Reputation: 71
I've lived in both, Europe and USA. I prefer Europe's quality of life. BUT you must understand too that there are things I miss about USA, convenience, bigger spaces, cheap prices, I can get loads of things for small price, those are fantastic things a human can get. I think the quality is higher in Europe even for middle class. Anyway that is my opinion. Have a nice day.
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Old 11-10-2013, 12:52 PM
 
5,781 posts, read 11,873,729 times
Reputation: 4661
A lot of delusionists here.
Take my case : I live in France and earn yearly 36000 € (about 40 000 $) - before taxes-that would make me a blue- collar worker in the US, here I'm middle class (maybe lower middle class, still, it's middle class, blue collar workers generally earn less). I own a one bedroom, 700 sqft apartment with a tiny garden . Now imagine what lower middle class Americans would say if they had to live in such conditions! it's true there are some perks here, like long , loooong vacations (6 weeks : you read well, 6 goddamn weeks!)it's a kind of trade-off : we pay you less, but you have more vacations. Fine. Personally, I don't complain, because it's my own culture, I've been so to say nurtured since cradle with this way of life, so I try to do the most of it. But I believe someone who doesnt lack ambition like me (and millions like me) would be happy to be at least given the choice-as I guess Americans would like to be given the choice too to have longer vacations and earn less- : you work more and earn more or you forge ahead with your measle pay and your 6 weeks vacations.. It's what former French President wanted to do. He failed in front of the rebellion of the French unions and the French Left now in power.
Whatever : do you still honestly believe in this "the grass is greener " thing? it ain't greener, on neither side of the Pond.
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Old 11-10-2013, 01:20 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
Reputation: 9728
I don't know how old you people are, but your views are rather materialistic.
Standard of living is a relative, subjective thing. Someone mentioned bigger SUV's for example. In the US that might be considered something positive, in Europe the opposite is true. In Germany more and more young people don't even get a driver's license as they are not interested in driving anymore, which terrifies the auto industry.
In other words, one can't take one culture's ideals and measure a completely different culture based on those ideals.
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Old 11-10-2013, 01:24 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by pigeonhole View Post
A lot of delusionists here.
Take my case : I live in France and earn yearly 36000 € (about 40 000 $) - before taxes-that would make me a blue- collar worker in the US, here I'm middle class (maybe lower middle class, still, it's middle class, blue collar workers generally earn less). I own a one bedroom, 700 sqft apartment with a tiny garden . Now imagine what lower middle class Americans would say if they had to live in such conditions! it's true there are some perks here, like long , loooong vacations (6 weeks : you read well, 6 goddamn weeks!)it's a kind of trade-off : we pay you less, but you have more vacations. Fine. Personally, I don't complain, because it's my own culture, I've been so to say nurtured since cradle with this way of life, so I try to do the most of it. But I believe someone who doesnt lack ambition like me (and millions like me) would be happy to be at least given the choice-as I guess Americans would like to be given the choice too to have longer vacations and earn less- : you work more and earn more or you forge ahead with your measle pay and your 6 weeks vacations.. It's what former French President wanted to do. He failed in front of the rebellion of the French unions and the French Left now in power.
Whatever : do you still honestly believe in this "the grass is greener " thing? it ain't greener, on neither side of the Pond.
If you were so ambitious, you would become self-employed or an entrepreneur. In that case you could work 24/7 if you wanted. So, I don't get your logic there...
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