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Old 12-08-2013, 04:24 PM
 
4,654 posts, read 3,707,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amaroW View Post
People from those overseas departments consider themselves to be French and not colonies!
People who consider it colony are just ....I don't know...
.

That's a nice neo-colonial answer,ask a prisoner if he's happy in his cell,can french people talk on behalf of people of Martinique or Guadeloupe ?
Looking at french made documentaries of the fifties,showing algerians happy under french occupation,was a masquarade.
I guess,during the german occupation,french people were happy to be german citizens again.

 
Old 12-08-2013, 05:34 PM
 
821 posts, read 697,405 times
Reputation: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by scobby View Post
.

That's a nice neo-colonial answer,ask a prisoner if he's happy in his cell,can french people talk on behalf of people of Martinique or Guadeloupe ?
Looking at french made documentaries of the fifties,showing algerians happy under french occupation,was a masquarade.
I guess,during the german occupation,french people were happy to be german citizens again.
You compare the Algerian situation with the French Guyana, Reunion etc situation..lol
I stop here...Why do you think those countries never wanted to be independent?
And French people make a big difference between black people from Africa and black people from Guadeloupe, Martinique. The last ones are not only considered as being French, but originally from France.

Last edited by amaroW; 12-08-2013 at 05:43 PM..
 
Old 12-08-2013, 05:49 PM
 
4,654 posts, read 3,707,571 times
Reputation: 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by amaroW View Post
You compare the Algerian situation with the French Guyana, Reunion etc situation..lol
I stop here...Why do you think those countries never wanted to be independent?
And French people make a big difference between black people from Africa and black people from Guadeloupe, Martinique. The last one are not only considered as being French, but originally from France.
Why not ? Comparing 2 colonial situations,that's what most historians do !
How do you know that these countries never wanted independence ?
Do you speak for them?
It's not important what the french think,it's what the native think that matters
That's the old school french discourse that you're preaching.
 
Old 12-08-2013, 05:54 PM
 
15,034 posts, read 13,621,855 times
Reputation: 6916
Quote:
Originally Posted by scobby View Post
.

French prejudice started a longtime,during the colonization era,where they used propaganda to destroy countries in Africa,Asia,South America and the Antilles.

Bringing civilization to the savage populations of Africa,the german had the same arguments,they wanted to civilize the french.

So prejudice is in the french culture,the emigration is only a consequence of the colonization,why did the french invade these countries in the first place ?
Oh enough with this nonsense already - Germans didn't want to "civilize the French" as you are trying to imply here - they just wanted to rule Europe.

As for "colonization era" - that's what more advanced cultures always did - they were taking advantage of those lagging behind in development. Nothing new/outstanding about that one.
And if French were so bad, why the heck the "oppressed" people started arriving in droves to the country of their former oppressors? So may be ( just may be) they've figured out that the difference between more advanced civilization and less advanced civilization DOES matter after all?
As the practice shows us today, not having colonies is not saving European countries from not having emigration from Africa/Asia in great numbers. Sweden for example didn't have any colonies, so how the heck 40,000 of Somalis ended up there, not mentioning Eritreans and so on?

Stockholm riots leave Sweden's dreams of perfect society up in smoke - Telegraph
 
Old 12-09-2013, 12:23 AM
 
4,800 posts, read 10,574,519 times
Reputation: 8290
Quote:
Originally Posted by markovian process View Post
I've seen it all the time. Depictions, jokes in the American media about how the French are cowardly, eat cheese and surrender. It's ironic though, since France was at times among the most powerful countries militarily in many times in history. Napoleon's army, for instance, was quite a force to be reckoned with. Even today, the French are pretty tough. For instance, as a contemporary example they intervened in Mali when many countries wouldn't. The French Foreign Legion is well known for it's toughness. Why then is there the opposite perception, that the French can't put up a good fight?

Where did it start and how did it become an idea of mockery as part of popular culture? Did it start from WWII? If so, I'd find it odd that French people get singled out in history as many groups, peoples and nations have been on the losing/surrendering end at least once in their history.
I think does come mostly from WW2 and also from the French policy that kicked Nato out of France in the 1960s.
Also a perception of failure of the French military, which is mostly undeserved. The French soldier in the ranks throughout history has shown skill, bravery and good training and discipline, however, the French generals who commanded them often let them down with their incompetence.
 
Old 12-09-2013, 01:15 AM
 
4,654 posts, read 3,707,571 times
Reputation: 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Oh enough with this nonsense already - Germans didn't want to "civilize the French" as you are trying to imply here - they just wanted to rule Europe.

As for "colonization era" - that's what more advanced cultures always did - they were taking advantage of those lagging behind in development. Nothing new/outstanding about that one.
And if French were so bad, why the heck the "oppressed" people started arriving in droves to the country of their former oppressors? So may be ( just may be) they've figured out that the difference between more advanced civilization and less advanced civilization DOES matter after all?
As the practice shows us today, not having colonies is not saving European countries from not having emigration from Africa/Asia in great numbers. Sweden for example didn't have any colonies, so how the heck 40,000 of Somalis ended up there, not mentioning Eritreans and so on?

Stockholm riots leave Sweden's dreams of perfect society up in smoke - Telegraph
It's not a nonsense,germans demonstrated their superiority over the french,they defeated France twice if it was not US help,french people would be speaking german today.
Not rule,civilize the french.
So you're applauding colonisers,you' re saying if colonisation was not good,why immigrants come to ur country,that's a horrible idea
Colonialism is a legal robbery system,so Mandela was wrong ?
 
Old 12-09-2013, 04:00 AM
 
19 posts, read 25,652 times
Reputation: 18
Better an alive coward that a dead hero, my grandfather and my grand-uncle were a desertors and I'm proud of them. All the concripts from his town died in a single battle, the disaster of Annual.

As to French, French people were tired and desilussioned, for them WWI meant a blood drain, and conservative and middle class French were more afraid of communists, liberals and..yes...Jews than from Nazis. They were scared stiff of Leon Blum and le Front Popularie and they had the example of Spain...a terrorific example. They knew about brutal killings and sacking in Spain performed at the order of Stalin, the robbery of all gold reserves, etc.

So for many, the German invasion served to quell a future civil war.
 
Old 12-09-2013, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Belgium
1,173 posts, read 1,673,530 times
Reputation: 1413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
And in WWI the US didn't 'save' France. France and Britain had 16 million men in arms combined, while the US sent 4.5 million, much of which saw little action during the war. The American Air Force flew exclusively French planes. The seeds for the Austro-German defeat was sown before America even entered the war.

The Central Powers would've lost the war even if America should've stayed out of the war altogether.
this.

And what people always seem to forget, is the role of the Soviet-Union in WWII. The USSR bled like hardly any country ever bled in history. They (and, granted, also the UK) were the ones taking the full blow of Hitler's wrath, and they fought and kept on fighting. Compared to the USSR, the USA reaped enormous benefits (leader of the free world) for relatively little losses (under half a million soldiers killed, compared to at least 9 million Russian soldiers killed. And then I'm not talking about the unbelievable losses of
Russian civilians).

World War II casualties - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Old 12-09-2013, 05:03 PM
 
554 posts, read 687,008 times
Reputation: 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by scobby View Post
.

That's a french interpretation of a colony,Algeria was also a french department.
Overseas departments and territories voted and decided to be part of France. All their inhabitants have exactly the same rights as other French people, and have the French citizenship. If those are colonies, so California and Hawaii are colonies as well.. And maybe the USA should give back their lands to the American Indians...
For example in Comoros, 3 of the 4 islands decided to be independent. Only Mayotte voted to stay French. The three islands are a mess and I can tell you all the natives from Mayotte prefer to be ruled from Paris than from Moroni.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scobby
It's not a nonsense,germans demonstrated their superiority over the french,they defeated France twice if it was not US help,french people would be speaking german today.
Not rule,civilize the french.
So you're applauding colonisers,you' re saying if colonisation was not good,why immigrants come to ur country,that's a horrible idea
Colonialism is a legal robbery system,so Mandela was wrong ?
Twice ? We don't know who would have won the WW1 if the US didn't enter the war. Most historians think the war would have lasted a couple of more years, and ended with a draw, and all Europeans countries so broke they couldn't repay their loans to the USA. And even if one of the two sides won, they wouldn't have enough power left to ask anything close to the Versailles Treaty.
The allies freed France during the WWII and we are thankful for that, but don't use one, and huge, success in our common History to rewrite the whole Story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
You forgot the French Pox.
Haha I didn't know about that. It's funny because it's little name in French is the "mal de Naples".. or Neapolitan disease. We've got a lot of words like that in French as well, but the funnier is this one :
Filer l'anglaise = slip away [like an Englishman]= to take French leave
But in the end most Europeans languages inherited the French expression.
 
Old 12-09-2013, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Scotland
7,972 posts, read 10,088,512 times
Reputation: 4092
Quote:
Originally Posted by scobby View Post
.

1-America did not ask for a statue.

2-i doesn't matter where you live,you don't have enough love for France to move there,now you're waiting for scotland to break away from the union

3-You are the expert in history and geography ! UK include England,so where is the error ? welsh and scottish just fellow the english,they have no authority,in UK union,England is everything,the other just fellow.
Oh god and you expect to win an argument with a statement like that.
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