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I was just highlighting the fact that the Napoleon army was great, not that the russians were weak...
The Grand Armee was indeed the formidable force, but if the Russians were "weak" as you imply, they wouldn't have been able to stage the Borodino battle
The fact that they were retreating in the beginning, could have been attributed to two factors; number one the inexperience of the first general handing the invasion - Barclay de Tolly, and second - the Russian practice of the "scorched earth" tactics - where the troops would avoid the direct engagement in the battle for some time, while luring the enemy deep into the territory and destroying the ability of foreign troops to live off the conquered land.
Other European nations don't have such luxury for obvious reasons, so these tactics were very disturbing and unfamiliar for the French. Even when the commander of the Russian army has been switched ( they've appointed the old veteran, Michail Kutuzov,) he too was employing the tactics of the "scorched earth."
Besides...those crazy people not being afraid of heights doesn't prove anything...
Except for the fact that Russians have certain fearlessness about them and a lot of guts I have to admit.
(Which probably doesn't make them the best husbands in the world I imagine, but very good warriors.)
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not to mention that finally the proto-bulgarians were iranians + mongols but not slavs.
And "proto-Russians" were most likely the Scythians - again the Iranic people, not "slavs" - so who cares)))
They were conquered. Simple. And it was an embarassing and shameful moment in French history.
Imagine images of Vladimir Putin rolling down Fifth Avenue in a military processional with downtrodden New Yorkers lining the streets. Then heading to Washington where he gets a guided tour around the city and enjoys a few cigars with Ahmadinejad while enjoying the view of the Washington Monument from the steps of the Lincoln Memorial. The world would rub that in America's face forever.
Of course the world would have been rubbing that in America's face forever. I mean to be separated from Russia ( and everyone else) by the oceans, and still to end up in this situation?
When American capital will be in few hours car ride from German capital, then we'll talk.
450 years of war in normany followed by WWI and WWII in which the germans nearly exterminated male population of france in a matter of hours. all the fight was out of them, they only saw death or surrender as the option. they would not fight. the resistance which they now all try to own, was only when they realized all the deals that germany made with them in WWII were discarded as soon as germany marched in. de gaulle landed in normany 1 week after the invasion at omaha. shameless behavior but he helped patch up what pride the french had left which was not much.
the french were beat and would not fight.
even their attempts at the resistance were met with horrible retribution by the germans 4500 executed and dumped in mass graves south of paris on an island, probably many of them innocent of the charge.
strange that we now see germany as the good guys and the french as cowards. talk to some old southerners about what the occupation laughingly called reconstuction- was really like, before you call them cowards.
450 years of war in normany followed by WWI and WWII in which the germans nearly exterminated male population of france in a matter of hours. all the fight was out of them, they only saw death or surrender as the option. they would not fight.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - thanks God for it.
Because wars do pass, but the history remains.
So now we at least can marvel at old French architecture and French small towns, while we are missing a big chunk of German architecture and beauty that was forever destroyed.
Well, that might be something unusual for an American, but pretty much every country in Europe was conquered once in its history.
Most Americans can't recall the military exploits of William the Conqueror. However, many Americans have parents or grandparents who remember watching images (or listening to radio descriptions) of the Germans marching victoriously into Paris.
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Originally Posted by viribusunitis
IMO nothing shameful, definitely not shameful.
Sure it was shameful. Totally humiliating. A once great power that nearly reigned supreme over the European continent being militarily and psychologically subdued by its long-time nemesis is nothing short of total humiliation.
The Grand Armee was indeed the formidable force, but if the Russians were "weak" as you imply...
erasure:
I got a new conspiracy theory...write something in russian in latin!
I first need to be sure that you're indeed Russian and not some kid who lives in San Diego, California, USA who dreams of moving to moscow because "putin makes obama look weak"...and "because russian women aren't fat feminists like our women" .... lol.
Most Americans can't recall the military exploits of William the Conqueror. However, many Americans have parents or grandparents who remember watching images (or listening to radio descriptions) of the Germans marching victoriously into Paris.
Sure it was shameful. Totally humiliating. A once great power that nearly reigned supreme over the European continent being militarily and psychologically subdued by its long-time nemesis is nothing short of total humiliation.
They fought valiantly during WWII, but they were treasoned by their political leaders.
I guess people say that because colaboritionism, Petain, Larras, but I find that Petain was right in a certain way given the circunstances.
I woun't certainly say that they were cowards at all.
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lol.