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Old 01-14-2014, 08:34 PM
 
831 posts, read 2,519,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
Well if you think Robbie Keane looks Mediterranean that would be the most common Irish colouring. Brown hair, fair freckled skin and blue eyes. If that is Mediterranean then that is the Irish. The Irish have more fair skinned people and more blue eyes than even Britain so if fair skin and blue eyes are Mediterranean everyone is Europe is virtually Mediterranean.
Robbie keane is someone I would depict as typical celtic looking, darkbrown/black haired pale skin and blue eyes or light eyes, he is the typical Irish person

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/matc...galaxy-cropped

now there are many Irish who look very mediterranean. AN example would be the Seoighe sisters, they aver very black haired and arabic looking.. nobody would ever raise and eyebrow if they claimed to be ethnic turks.


Grainne Seoige 2 - YouTube

dont tell me those types are rare in Ireland.

 
Old 01-14-2014, 08:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmega View Post
http://theresilientearth.com/files/i...rrypicking.jpg
Who the hell is Matt Hardy? The American wrestler?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...utosession.jpg
Or is it another Matt Hardy, because this guy looks mixed ancestry. Frank Lampard is not typical because he doesn't really have strongly identifiable English looks. Gallagher bros are Irish and nothing Mediterranean. Zeta Jones and Tom Jones are Welsh and much darker than average and clearly a cherry-pickers delight. Cheryl Cole.....she's Irish and Scottish. Just because she exists doesn't mean she's typical or common. Jeff Beck, who dyes his hair black these days, easily passes as a German
http://www.biography.com/imported/im...3497-1-402.jpg
nothing Mediterranean about his looks. Ritchie Blackmore also just looks like a darker north European and he obvious dyes his hair black these days too. His original hair colour was medium brown
http://www.dennishanna.com/mark3_cc.jpg
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4806383162753348&pid=1.7
Brian May definitely could pass as Dutch and looks nothing Mediterranean
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5tNa1uoHqz...0/brianmay.jpg
Congratulations on searching for exotic dark Brits to prove what 60 million people look like.

Why do you think Rowan Atkinson is brought up so much on these types of forums? Same for Connery, Zeta Jones, and Colin Farrell. It's because they are exotic and stand out very strongly. They get a lot of attention because they contradict what most people think of typical Brits. In Southern Europe no one would fuss over them, and even in central and eastern Europe. So you declaring Rowan Atkinson as a typical Brit truly shows the level of ignorance that you work with. So again, great job searching for darker Brits, but you can't prove what's average with cherry-picked examples.

I meant tom hardy.. and I've never seen a netherlander with the facial features of Bryan May, he looks very paleo-brit (pre celtic/pre-germanic brit)

Never seen someone like that outside the UK

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...cgm8YUppaKOVjA
 
Old 01-14-2014, 08:42 PM
 
2,603 posts, read 3,768,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takeo3 View Post
Traveler86



I don't think so, yet English people tend to be more "ashblonde".



most Brittish people with really black hair and pale skin I know are Scottish, Welsh or Irish or of Scottish, Welsh or Irish decent.




English, not really. It is more common in the "celtic frindge". English look more Germanic, altough obviously with some celtic admicture.
I live in Belgium, I often take the eurostar to london. I like looking at faces, and English sure look more nordic than the average Belgian, even Flemish. Many Flemish have a French look, celtic with mediterranean admixture, altough you also have very Germanic looking types, since the Netherlands is close. It also depends on the area, even in such a small region. So I can imagine in a much larger country like GB there will be regional differences.






not really, most Bavarians and Austrians have dark hair (remember Hitler...) and blue eyes, like many Brits. Yet the difference is the face, Brits have a more "atlantic" face, while many southern Germans and Austrians have a more Central european, pronounced face. You can already notice some small Eastern European influence.






That's the celtic look, but English people are a mix of Celts, Germanic peoples and others (French, Romans, Normans, etc.).



I think anglosaxons made quite an influence on English DNA, the Normans less so, since they were not numerous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler86 View Post
Robbie keane is someone I would depict as typical celtic looking, darkbrown/black haired pale skin and blue eyes or light eyes, he is the typical Irish person

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/matc...galaxy-cropped

now there are many Irish who look very mediterranean. AN example would be the Seoighe sisters, they aver very black haired and almost arabic looking.


Grainne Seoige 2 - YouTube

dont tell me those types are rare in Ireland.

Yes Grainne Seoige has dark colouring for Irish but both her and her sister are gorgeous.

Regarding that scientific study I posted in the thread on Who Tans there was also some statistics on hair and eye colour.

The commonest eye colour was blue (59%) and green (21%). The commonest hair colours were dark brown (36%) and light brown (31%). This should give you a good indication of colouring in Ireland along with the fact that 76% of the population are Type I and Type II.

Skin type distribution and skin disease in Ireland - Springer#
 
Old 01-14-2014, 08:44 PM
 
831 posts, read 2,519,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
Yes Grainne Seoige has dark colouring for Irish but both her and her sister are gorgeous.

Regarding that scientific study I posted in the thread on Who Tans there was also some statistics on hair and eye colour.

The commonest eye colour was blue (59%) and green (21%). The commonest hair colours were dark brown (36%) and light brown (31%). This should give you a good indication of colouring in Ireland along with the fact that 76% of the population are Type I and Type II.

Skin type distribution and skin disease in Ireland - Springer#

I believe in your studies, I just disagree with Mmega .
 
Old 01-14-2014, 08:48 PM
 
2,603 posts, read 3,768,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler86 View Post
I believe in your studies, I just disagree with Mmega .
Well it is a scientific paper looking at in particular skin types and tanning. It isn't my studies . I'd also describe Robbie Keane's hair colour as medium brown. I wouldn't call it black at all.

Would you describe Robbie Keane as looking Mediterranean?
 
Old 01-14-2014, 08:55 PM
 
831 posts, read 2,519,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
Well it is a scientific paper looking at in particular skin types and tanning. It isn't my studies . I'd also describe Robbie Keane's hair colour as medium brown. I wouldn't call it black at all.

Would you describe Robbie Keane as looking Mediterranean?
rather atlantic looks. similar to pierce brosnan. I do think sean connery and z jones looks mediterranean though.
 
Old 01-14-2014, 09:07 PM
 
2,603 posts, read 3,768,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler86 View Post
rather atlantic looks. similar to pierce brosnan. I do think sean connery and z jones looks mediterranean though.
Fair enough. Pierce Brosnan is a very good looking man and if that is Atlantic that is a good look. Interesting you mentioned Pierce. Apparently a gene has been discovered that gives people that type of colouring. It apparently reduces melanin in surface skin cells. So people with the gene have less protection from the sun. Another incidence of the Irish not been particularly suited to sunny climes. So if you use Pierce Brosnan and Robbie Keane as Atlantic (which I'm not sure what that is) they don't seem to have much connection to the Mediterranean but have a skin type much more suited to an Irish climate? Wouldn't you agree that this would be a reasonable deduction?

'Pierce Brosnan gene' that gives people freckles, dark hair and blue eyes discovered by scientists | Mail Online
 
Old 01-14-2014, 10:27 PM
 
4,690 posts, read 7,701,658 times
Reputation: 994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
Yes Grainne Seoige has dark colouring for Irish but both her and her sister are gorgeous.

Regarding that scientific study I posted in the thread on Who Tans there was also some statistics on hair and eye colour.

The commonest eye colour was blue (59%) and green (21%). The commonest hair colours were dark brown (36%) and light brown (31%). This should give you a good indication of colouring in Ireland along with the fact that 76% of the population are Type I and Type II.

Skin type distribution and skin disease in Ireland - Springer#

Right on Bernie! I actually posted this study many months earlier in several threads. It's more than a proof that the Irish are not any dark, since 64% according to this study have hair colour which is lighter than dark brown and 80% have blue/green eyes. In skin tone, it is the lightest or one of the lightest since 76% have Type I(Pale/milky white skin, which always burns, never tans, lot of freckles) and Type II(white/fair skin, which usually burns but tans slightly). In skin tone they are still lighter than the average. That is the Celtic heritage, countries with a Celtic heritage usually have a much lighter skin tone. The extreme Northwestern Europe has the lightest skin tone.
If we compare Ireland skin tones with some European countries.

Strictly Type I and Type I Only(fairest skin types):

U.K. - 54.6%
France - 37.3%(Bretons have similar "Celtic colouring" and are the lightest in France)
Belgium - 33.9%
Finland- 33%
Germany- 32%
Denmark - 31.5%
Sweden- 28.6%
The Netherlands - 26%
Swiss German-speaking region - 19%
Italy - 10.2%

The IRF4 gene variant also known as "Irish phenotype"(brown hair, blue eyes, freckled skin combination, decreases ability to tan, very sun-sensitive) is definitely not from Southern Europe, but is quite common in Iceland. It's definitely not of Mediterranean inspiration, it's connected directly to the adaptation of Northern Europeans in their environment which was further north, it also linked to the red hair, light eyes, freckles gene variant MC1R.

Cillian Murphy exemplifies it well:
http://images5.fanpop.com/image/phot...8-947-1400.jpg

Last edited by saxonwold; 01-14-2014 at 11:02 PM..
 
Old 01-14-2014, 11:16 PM
 
4,690 posts, read 7,701,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takeo3 View Post
Yet I came to notice that most Irish or Scottish people don't look Scandinavian at all, like for example Richard Branson and many other English people. They usually have dark hair, blue eyes and a pale skin. That's the typical "celtic" look, which you also find in northern France, Switserland and Belgium. Obviously there are also Scandinavian looking people, since the vikings went there too and raped many women, but that's not the predominant type.

Poles look Slavic, but there's certainly some Western European admixture, Poles are like a mix of Russians with Germans. Me I'm from the former Soviet Union, and I can spot Russians from far. Russians and Ukrainians too have usually dark hair and blue eyes, yet their face is usually different from Western Europeans.
It's surprising that here in Belgium people usually think I'm foreign, also in GB or the Netherlands, but if I go to Eastern Europe or even turkey (altough I don't look dark at all, have a pale skin) people think I'm one of them.

About Italy, real Northern Italians as you can find them in Trentino, don't look that much different from Bavarians. But in the big cities in northern Italy millions of southern Italians settled during history, so these days most Northern Italians don't look that much different from Southern Italians.

In Spain too the north and south mixed extensively long time ago. Moorish people were sent to the north, Galicians were sent to the south, even Flemish (which belonged to to Spanish empire, and in Flandres this is noticeable, quite a few Spanish looking types) were sent to the Canary islands.
To remind you that the "dark" hair, blue eyes, very pale skin or freckled, has been found common in the Icelandic population recently tagged by Icelandic biologists and geneticists as IRF4! So for to say that it,s not Scandinavian at all is wrong. In Storumen, northern Sweden(Scandinavia) according to a study on pigmentation 45% had dark brown hair and 78% had blue and green eyes and were found to be of a lighter skin tone than the southern Swedes in Gothenberg who were lighter-haired with about the same ratio for blue and green eyes. So be careful of what you call Scandinavian!
 
Old 01-14-2014, 11:21 PM
 
2,603 posts, read 3,768,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saxonwold View Post
Right on Bernie! I actually posted this study many months earlier in several threads. It's more than a proof that the Irish are not any dark, since 64% according to this study have hair colour which is lighter than dark brown and 80% have blue/green eyes. In skin tone, it is the lightest or one of the lightest since 76% have Type I(Pale/milky white skin, which always burns, never tans, lot of freckles) and Type II(white/fair skin, which usually burns but tans slightly). In skin tone they are still lighter than the average. That is the Celtic heritage, countries with a Celtic heritage usually have a much lighter skin tone. The extreme Northwestern Europe has the lightest skin tone.
If we compare Ireland skin tones with some European countries.

Strictly Type I and Type I Only(fairest skin types):

U.K. - 54.6%
France - 37.3%(Bretons have similar "Celtic colouring" and are the lightest in France)
Belgium - 33.9%
Finland- 33%
Germany- 32%
Denmark - 31.5%
Sweden- 28.6%
The Netherlands - 26%
Swiss German-speaking region - 19%
Italy - 10.2%

The IRF4 gene variant also known as "Irish phenotype"(brown hair, blue eyes, freckled skin combination) is definitely not from Southern Europe, but is quite common in Iceland. It's definitely not of Mediterranean inspiration, it's connected directly to the adaptation of Northern Europeans in their environment which was further north, it also linked to the red hair, light eyes, freckles gene variant MC1R.

Cillian Murphy exemplifies it well:
http://www.bettyconfidential.com/ar/...attys-day.html
It would be interesting to have some statistics on Iberians to compare and contrast. Whilst the Irish are not Scandinavians or German they are what they are which is a North Western island population. The closest population to the Irish are the Western Scots which makes perfect sense as there has been a lot of population movement back and forth with them. The Irish and all of British share a close genetic relationship. Also the Normans that came to Ireland were Cambro-Normans who had lived in Wales before coming to Ireland so they would have been a mix of Welsh and Norman ancestry. There also was a lot of English settlement in Ireland especially on the east coast and the southern counties. I'm not even going to go into what happened in Northern Ireland. Another factor is that the Vikings had settlements in Ireland so all these people have contributed their genes to the Irish population as well as the Gaels. The next closest population to the Irish are the Dutch and Norwegians. Whatever people think the Irish look like these are the populations most similar to them using dna studies.

I used to think the Irish had a relationship to the Basque and was quite intrigued by this when those earlier studies came out. But this was in the early days of dna and the science has moved on and theories that were in vogue then have now been disproven. I initially was very surprised to see how similar the British Isles population is. Like a lot of people I was brought up to believe that the Irish are Celts and that the English are Anglo-Saxon and Sassenach. Yes dna is an eye opener and people have to leave their preconceived opinions behind and have an open mind and go with what science shows them.

Last edited by Bernie20; 01-15-2014 at 12:45 AM..
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