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Old 01-29-2014, 07:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamford View Post
Early European Man
No surprise at all. As expected the earliest Europeans were obviously darker than modern Europeans, skin lightening was gradual as they came from warmer climates where their dark skin was beneficiary. They were dark, but probably not fully as dark as Equatorial Africans but not "white" yet. Though the blue eye mutation had already taken place at that time, before even pale skin mutation. Now we know how ancient are blue eyes in European genome. Although he lived in Spain, he doesn't reflect the modern Spanish population which is in the majority still brown/hazel-eyed in the majority. He is genetically close to the population much further north in Scandinavia and Finland. Probably because that part of Europe has also retained a large amount of the hunter-gatherer genes since agriculture arrived there later than in may parts of Europe. It is so beautiful now, that we can see how our early ancestors went through depigmentation to become who we are now.
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Old 01-30-2014, 07:41 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Maybe those two genetically displaced blue-eyed people were from the north to begin with. Oetzi was found in the Alps although he was from a Mediterranean island. Another ancient human was from the Alps, but found in what is now Britain. People migrated back then as well, maybe even more so than today. We go on vacation a lot, but most people stay where they are from.

And again, they are still discovering new info on the role of Neanderthals all the time...
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Old 01-30-2014, 01:26 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Not just Indo-Europeans, people from the Middle East and maybe even North Africa also entered Europe, especially in the south.

Regarding Neanderthals, Fox News, but still...
How much Neanderthal DNA do you have? Lots | Fox News
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Old 01-31-2014, 02:15 AM
 
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Neanderthals had a different variants for light skin and light hair than us modern humans, we became light not so long ago. Our variants are totally different from that of Neanderthals, come on! We can see early Europeans of our species were primarily not even as white as we are, so how can we say we come from Neanderthals? It doesn't make sense at all, perhaps only just to a "Neanderthal wannabe". We are the Homo-Sapien Sapiens who came later, that's why our variants for red hair and a very white skin/freckled are differ as well from that of Neanderthals. They were in Europe way before we emerged from Africa and died out. There are only speculations, we might have lived side by side, but no assurance at all in it. Modern human beings whereever they are, their body build, cranial shapes differ from that of Neanderthals. If we were Neanderthals, so how come some of us do not share the same variants? Yes I'm a redhead, with very pale skin, blue-green eyes but my genetical variants for my colouring are from those of Homo-Sapien Sapiens, my ancestry is 100% Northern European (English, Dutch, Belgian). Northern Europeans are not less modern human than other people!! The proof has been found this early Europeans although they were darker-pigmented than average modern Europeans show that they genetically cluster more with Scandinavians/Northern Europeans more than with Mediterraneans as Spaniards, etc... The truth the very ancient Northern Europeans had a darker skin tone which changed to light after they switched their diet from a Vitamin D rich one to a Vitamin D deficient one especially living in places as north as Scandinavia, Britain, Netherlands, etc.... Therefore our skin had to lighten in order to process faster Vitamin D in cool weather from sunlight! Why do you think Eskimos are still darker than Europeans but live in a more Northern Latitude,? Because they retained their Vitamin D very rich diet much longer than the Europeans did, but their skin tone is still lighter than that of Equatorial Africans.
This article will help some understand such a simple context.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...d187LAq-6NgTuA

This one as well!
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...pkNM8xYVIToO1g

Last edited by saxonwold; 01-31-2014 at 02:29 AM..
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:00 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,247 posts, read 19,244,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saxonwold View Post
Neanderthals had a different variants for light skin and light hair than us modern humans, we became light not so long ago. Our variants are totally different from that of Neanderthals, come on! We can see early Europeans of our species were primarily not even as white as we are, so how can we say we come from Neanderthals? It doesn't make sense at all, perhaps only just to a "Neanderthal wannabe". We are the Homo-Sapien Sapiens who came later, that's why our variants for red hair and a very white skin/freckled are differ as well from that of Neanderthals. They were in Europe way before we emerged from Africa and died out. There are only speculations, we might have lived side by side, but no assurance at all in it. Modern human beings whereever they are, their body build, cranial shapes differ from that of Neanderthals. If we were Neanderthals, so how come some of us do not share the same variants? Yes I'm a redhead, with very pale skin, blue-green eyes but my genetical variants for my colouring are from those of Homo-Sapien Sapiens, my ancestry is 100% Northern European (English, Dutch, Belgian). Northern Europeans are not less modern human than other people!! The proof has been found this early Europeans although they were darker-pigmented than average modern Europeans show that they genetically cluster more with Scandinavians/Northern Europeans more than with Mediterraneans as Spaniards, etc... The truth the very ancient Northern Europeans had a darker skin tone which changed to light after they switched their diet from a Vitamin D rich one to a Vitamin D deficient one especially living in places as north as Scandinavia, Britain, Netherlands, etc.... Therefore our skin had to lighten in order to process faster Vitamin D in cool weather from sunlight! Why do you think Eskimos are still darker than Europeans but live in a more Northern Latitude,? Because they retained their Vitamin D very rich diet much longer than the Europeans did, but their skin tone is still lighter than that of Equatorial Africans.
This article will help some understand such a simple context.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...d187LAq-6NgTuA

This one as well!
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...pkNM8xYVIToO1g
Frankly, I think you got it pretty wrong. It is a fact that all non-African HSS are mixed with Neanderthals, including you. And it is also a fact that modern humans lived alongside Neanderthals for quite some time. They died out only 30k years ago, i.e. long after HSS spread to Europe and elsewhere. Actually, they did not die out completely, they live on in non-Africans. It is just a fact, not good, not bad, but just the way it is. It is beyond me where that almost ideological or religious denial comes from...

Even the experts admit they still have to investigate what all the genes we got from them, between 1 and 3% of our genome depending on the individual, actually mean for the way we are. Very little has been clarified, unlike what you claim here. It will take years to answer all the questions on migrations, Neanderthals, mixing, etc.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:12 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petarda I View Post
Indoeuropeans, the bulk of European population, came from near the Caspian sea though Turkey mostly. North Africa was settled from the Middle East 9.000 years ago and the earliest contact with Europe were during the Lybiofenician colonization and wars.
The bulk maybe, but not all of them, which is why some Europeans have non-IE genes dating back to those times and before then.

North Africa has been inhabited for much longer, hundreds of thousands of years actually, by all kinds of humans, including neanderthals. The Sahara ceases to be a desert in cycles, it will be inhabitable again in the future, bringing black Africans up to the Mediterranean and probably to Europe again via Gibraltar.
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Old 01-31-2014, 11:23 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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There indeed were Neanderthals in North Africa. Check for instance the maps at about 1/3 down the page:
Should We Clone Neanderthals? - Archaeology Magazine Archive

Yes, some still call Germans Huns
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Old 01-31-2014, 01:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Frankly, I think you got it pretty wrong. It is a fact that all non-African HSS are mixed with Neanderthals, including you. And it is also a fact that modern humans lived alongside Neanderthals for quite some time. They died out only 30k years ago, i.e. long after HSS spread to Europe and elsewhere. Actually, they did not die out completely, they live on in non-Africans. It is just a fact, not good, not bad, but just the way it is. It is beyond me where that almost ideological or religious denial comes from...

Even the experts admit they still have to investigate what all the genes we got from them, between 1 and 3% of our genome depending on the individual, actually mean for the way we are. Very little has been clarified, unlike what you claim here. It will take years to answer all the questions on migrations, Neanderthals, mixing, etc.
Only in theory that is not true. How come only male neanderthals variations are found, but not females? Bunch of nonsense. We are not less human than Africans, in fact we are quite similar. This why a European can donate his blood to an African or vice-versa. Neanderthals were definitely not like us modern humans. Our light skin only evolve less than 7,000 years ago, but Neanderthals had already acquired very white skin and red hair! If we mingled with them we should have been as light as well, but we weren't. Early Europeans were still dark-skinned 7,000 years ago. The theory that you are saying was made by people who were anti-African origin, because to me they were just racists, you know. Africa is the cradle of humankind and all humans today are interlinked to the modern human group wich conquered the world and took over the Neanderthals homelands as well.
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:38 PM
 
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There was probably very little interbreeding between us and Neandethals, and may have only happened a few times. It's just that human population was so small in prehistory with many bottlenecks, that if there was even just one exchange, it could be passed on throughout the small population through many generations. Just like of all the 10's of millions North Americans who could easily trace a common ancestor to their next door neighbour or celebrity from centuries ago in the Old World. We've all gathered the genes and the deeds of our fellow human. Those living in Africa had no interactions with neanderthals, and historically Sub-Saharan Africa wasn't heavily back settled by Eurasian migrants.
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Old 02-01-2014, 11:24 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,247 posts, read 19,244,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saxonwold View Post
Only in theory that is not true. How come only male neanderthals variations are found, but not females? Bunch of nonsense. We are not less human than Africans, in fact we are quite similar. This why a European can donate his blood to an African or vice-versa. Neanderthals were definitely not like us modern humans. Our light skin only evolve less than 7,000 years ago, but Neanderthals had already acquired very white skin and red hair! If we mingled with them we should have been as light as well, but we weren't. Early Europeans were still dark-skinned 7,000 years ago. The theory that you are saying was made by people who were anti-African origin, because to me they were just racists, you know. Africa is the cradle of humankind and all humans today are interlinked to the modern human group wich conquered the world and took over the Neanderthals homelands as well.
Actually, it said somewhere in those recent studies that the male offspring of such mixed parents were often pretty sterile, unlike the female offspring obviously, else they would not have mentioned the former.

I have no idea why you keep writing such weird things. Who said Europeans are less human than Africans?! In case you don't know, Neanderthals WERE humans as well. HSS was and is NOT the only human species. Asians are also mixed with other humans species, not only with Neanderthals.
It's just a fact, and I don't mind at all. I am not a racist, I don't believe for a minute that HSS are pure and nothing but HSS. I even like the fact that we are hybrids of various human species...

Just because we ultimately all date back to Africa, does not mean this refers only to HSS. Directly or indirectly the other human species have also come from there, at least that is what scientists currently believe. However, after millions of years in Asia etc. ancient humans there must have become quite different from their African ancestors. Just look how different Europeans are from Bushmen, who are considered the most ancient human ethnic group still alive. And the time separating us is at least an order less.

The ancestors of Europeans never were dark skinned like Africans, they used to be darker than modern Europeans of course, but not much darker than some native people in the Mediterranean today. Just saying because some people tend to think out-of-Africa means we had black ancestors, that is not the case.
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