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Old 05-01-2018, 08:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Straight Arrow View Post
I agree with Erasure.
I am married to American of German/English ( could be Irish ) descent for 25 years.
His German genes run deep. It is too obvious to Russian me.
The "conscientiousness & perfection" are nearly an obsession with him.
Everything he does is perfect. It might take a long time, but it will be as good as an original or better. He has pride in his work.
He is very organised and efficient. In his very big workshop every bolt, nut, instrument, machine has its place.
It is very clean.
He can weld, machine, build any detail or just about anything.
Everything he does he excels in it - archery, target shooting, scuba diving, now building and flying rc planes.
If he started doing something he will stay on it until it is done and done very well.
He is workaholic, has good work ethics, does not watch much tv or spend time on computer or wastes time period.
He is very punctual and come to his appointments 15-30 minutes before time. (While I barely make it on time).
You can trust his word 100%, never lied to anybody.
Conformist.
Walks , looks like a military person (loves short haircuts)- it is kind of a second nature to him. And he was in US reserves for a long time. Loved it, very patriotic. Would never question military orders or any rules - "that is what we were told to do". (While I would be all "why, why, why?"...)
He likes to can his own food (we have an organic garden). While I eyeball everything, he goes straight by recipe.
Our credit scores in 800s, because we pay our bills as they come in and do not miss any.
He is good at it - balancing our accounts, at doing taxes too. He is doing them the next day we receive our w-2s.
You describe pretty much someone I used to know ( with some differences of course.
Yes, that person was of German descent as well, up to a point that he told me that he wondered sometimes what his life would be had he born there. I assured him that he would fit right in somewhere in German village - he was a simple and good-hearted guy, who thought ( correctly so I guess) that "small place and small down to Earth things" would make him happy.
But I guess these people don't think much about being "perfectionists" in everything they do - up to a point that even their moves look *ergonomic* somehow.
I think it comes to them naturally - they wouldn't be able to operate any other way - that would make them nervous. Just a guess.

Quote:
I do think "German angst" is real.
Because 2 days ago he told me we have a year!!! worth of some special vacuumed food that is good for 25 years and the military grade super water filter (the most expensive on the market) with spare filters and gas masks for both of us ....And we had it for a while...He likes to be prepared. I would probably end up feeding this food to our chickens...
For example. We are going for a camping trip next month. Camper is already ready with his things neatly arranged. While I will be throwing mine the night before or in the morning...
I do believe in"behavioral genes" shaped by environment. Nature and nurture - both. I see it, it is real...
I also think that because of these qualities in German people (overall) Germany could recover after WWII and create the largest economy in Western Europe.
Probably.

P.S. I came across a site one day ( rather a forum) where Russian women married to Germans were sharing their experience, and practically everyone mentioned the same thing - the conformism and adherence to *rules,* without questioning them much. And them, ( the women that is) eyeballing it to no end.
But practically all reported steady, happy marriages.
So go figure)))
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Old 05-01-2018, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Southwest
1,559 posts, read 1,051,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_stick View Post
You should watch the Jersey Shore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestPreussen View Post
It was actually very popular show in Europe . My teenage cousins watched it . I actually saw one season where those italian americans came to Italy . Only one of them spoke broken italian because his mother was immigrant from sicily . The rest of them did not know a word of italian . They all found out to have not much in common with people there and could not wait to get back to America .
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
I was a bit dissappointed that they chose to send those kids to Florence rather than Naples.

The contrast within Italian culture from the heritage of the Jersey Shore kids (however tenuous) couldn't have been much more stark.

Imagine if they sent the kids to Lombardy or Piedmont? LOL

The people depicted in Jersey Shore are Americans of South Italian descent. Italians in Italy, especially in the north but also in the south, are different from Italian-Americans.
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Old 05-01-2018, 10:12 PM
 
14,990 posts, read 13,566,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
I have to disagree with you erasure. I subscribe to more of the nurture side rather than the nature. Yes I think that genes play a pivotal role in a persons character, I think there are genes that are going to make people more emotional, reserved, angry, irritable, smart, funny, friendly, introverted, extraverted etc. But I think in the end of the day I think how a person is raised and what environment they grew up in is going shape a persons character and what culture they identify with.
In the same manner these genes carry the traits, dominant for this or that nation.
Now when it comes to "the way person is raised" part, I have probably more in common with some dwellers of big cities all over Europe, than, say to the "Old believers" depicted in the short movie above, or any rural dwellers in Russia in general. However the fact remains - GENETICALLY I belong to that part of the world.

Quote:
For instance the dances you brought up a couple posts ago, those dances have to be learned, for instance I'm Russian/Ukrainian and I can't dance because nobody taught me how, and nobody in my family dances, it's just not part of my families culture, but according to you I should be just as good as those Russian soldiers just because I share their genes (and maybe I could be if some one taught me).
This is primarily a Russian folk dance. Stylized by professionals, but that's what it essentially is. And if you don't have this Russian "folksiness" in you, you most likely won't be able to pull it through ( even if otherwise you can dance something like ballroom dance.)

Quote:
And I'm pretty sure if somebody really wanted to they could learn how to dance in that style.
I'm pretty sure some people can learn how to emulate these moves ( I am talking about foreigners.)
But ORIGINALLY they couldn't CREATE this dance. Why? Because they are not Russians)))


Quote:
I think that genes help play a role in the organic development of cultures, but a culture is passed on by being learned rather than by blood.
Some things can be learned, but some things can be passed by blood only.

Quote:
Leave a toddler in the woods and it will lose it's cultural back ground and turn feral.
Toddler will turn "feral" not because it will lose its "cultural background," but because he will lose the connection to his own human species. His/her genes however will remain with the child nevertheless.

Quote:
The reason why certain people have a hard time of assimilating is because they look so different that the local people will never accept them,
And the "local people" don't accept them exactly why?
That's right, because they perceive them as different.
The difference in looks doesn't come out of nowhere.
The genetic traits of looks correspond to genetic traits of character; when looks are different, so are the characters.

Quote:
even if they have lived among them for many generations,
It all depends. Some people live generation after generation along each other and get along just fine, some obviously don't.

Quote:
plus not everyone wants to assimilate, many immigrants want to remain in a bubble and create a parallel society to the local one.
And why do you think THIS is happening, if everyone is the same, and it's all a matter of "upbringing?"
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Old 05-01-2018, 11:03 PM
 
14,990 posts, read 13,566,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestPreussen View Post
I disagree . I just put in google "famous americans from rural midwest " I went to the imdb and then checked ancestries of american actors from rural midwest . There was not a single one of full german ancestry . Every single one of them was of mixed ancestry . And they were from rural midwest . I do not think that this is a coincidence . I honestly doubt that even in rural areas of midwest majority of people are not of mixed ancestries . Everything says the opposite .
Please share with us the results of your study.


Quote:
The population of german states consisted of descendants of germanic tribes in the west , celtic tribes in the south and baltic and slavic tribes in the east . Later germans from the west mixed with people in the east colonized and germanized them .
So there you go. In order to "GERMANIZE" someone, you need to be GERMAN first.
And as long as the German "core value" stays in tact, they can absorb and "germanize" the newcomers, ( as long as the genes of the "newcomers" are not too destructive on the scale from one to ten, as I've already said.
So in spite of all this "melting pot" myth, Germans are still a nation, because their genetic "value core" is still there, in spite of the numerous admixtures.



Quote:
Germans are one big melting pot . They are not icelanders or even swedes . And you can find plenty of various looks in Germany .
Both of these people are german without any foreign influences . You can't seriously claim that they are of the same genetic stock .
Their "genetic stock" simply had more variables to begin with, that's all to it.


Quote:
Germans already absorbed a lot of slavs and balts , and it did not change anything . What is now east germany and what used to be west prussia and east prussia and pomerania and silesia was fully slavic and baltic (east prussia and part of west prussia ) . When Germans went there , they did not genocide those people , they completely absorbed and assimilated them . It did not hurt or change these germans one bit . All that mattered was just culture and environment . Genes did not matter at all .

Genetics are a stubborn thing; if to believe you, Germany wouldn't look any different from the near-by Slavic countries, but it's clearly not a case.

https://brilliantmaps.com/the-genetic-map-of-europe/



Quote:
I agree that not all germans are reserved and it is just stereotype , but if you think that Germans party hard , then you should go to Poland . Party chases party there . It all depends on someone's point of view .
Why should I go to Poland for that and not Russia?
No one of course still explained to me the essential difference between Russians and Poles so far, but this is what I think sometimes regarding the ( lately discussed) reluctance of Poles to accept refugees ( and people of color) in general, in their midst. ( Ditto - same goes for Russians, Ukrainians - you name it.)
So this is what I suspect; when it comes to Anglos and their NATIONAL traits, ( because THERE IS such thing as "national character,") - they tend to be rather on rational and calculative side, and thus more self-restrictive. Now Blacks ( and other people of color) on another hand have this warmth and informal laid-back attitude, (that the "vanilla people" often lack.)
Add to that good food ( and music) - these kind of variables that they bring along ( that's talking about the POSITIVE side, not the negatives.)
With Slavs, however - what positive side is there with such addition?
Slavs themselves have this "informal laid-back attitude," they are slackers plenty, they love to party and their food is as hearty as it gets.
So obviously on subconscious level they see no pluses, only minuses associated with such arrival, and hence - the negative reaction.
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Old 05-01-2018, 11:29 PM
 
14,990 posts, read 13,566,272 times
Reputation: 6895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Straight Arrow View Post
But, leave a Russian in US...

I read an interesting article recently, maybe a little outdated and things are changing by now, but still very impressive.
Something we do not hear anywhere and often about...millionaires of Russian descent here in US.
The old stock.
What do you think about that? Nature or nurture? Or both?

"WINNING ANCESTRY GROUPS
If the English ancestry group does not have the highest concentration of millionaire households, then which group does?
The Russian ancestry group ranks first, the Scottish ranks second, and the Hungarian ranks third. Although the Russian ancestry group accounts for only about 1.1 percent of all households in America, it accounts for 6.4 percent of all millionaire households. We estimate that approximately 22 of every 100 households headed by someone of Russian ancestry has a net worth of $1 million or more. This is in sharp contrast to the English ancestry group, in which only 7.71 in 100 of its members are in the millionaire league. How much wealth does this Russian American millionaire group have in total? We estimate approximately $1.1 trillion, or nearly 5 percent of all the personal wealth in America today!"
The whole article below.
https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nyti...aire.html?_r=2
These Russians need to be scooped up and returned with their loot to Russia sorry to say, because that's where their "initial capital" came from, starting from the end of the eighties, when the idiot Gorbachev allowed uncontrolled flight of money. These people essentially are the reason why the conflict between the US and Russia keeps on growing; well, they and American politicians, who brought this scum to life.
One can wonder of course, how many of these "Russian millionaires" are actually Russians, and not Russian Jews, ( the number of "Hungarian millionaires" makes me question this fact.)

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,...587086,00.html
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Old 05-01-2018, 11:35 PM
 
14,990 posts, read 13,566,272 times
Reputation: 6895
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
I think that has more to do with immigrants than with nationality, even Nigerian immigrants are on average richer than the general white population. Immigrants are usually people who are not afraid of taking risks and very hard working. The immigrants themselves might not be all that successful in their new host nation, but their children and grandchildren usually do because they instill this work ethic onto them, and their offspring feel like they are obliged to not waste the opportunity their parents/grandparents gave them, and everything they sacrificed to get them their. Also a lot of the times it's the cream of the crop that immigrates, as was the case with Russia and their brain drain. Also I know that in high school when I would meet people who just immigrated from Russia they would consider me 100% American even though I would be talking to them in Russian.
They are "richer," because they are ALREADY wealthy, when they come to the US.
They are already most likely educated somewhere in Europe, and having a potentially money-making profession, are moving to the US.
Or do you really think that some Nigerian villagers are moving to the US and become millionaires because they "work hard," unlike the "general white population?"
And it was not the "cream of the crop" necessarily that immigrated from Russia, but plenty of crooks and swindlers with the loot, as I've already mentioned above.
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Old 05-02-2018, 12:23 AM
 
14,990 posts, read 13,566,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob702 View Post
Nonsense. I suspect there is a gene that makes internet trolls internet trolls but that doesn't make it true. Show me a real scientific publication and I'll rest my case. It is very presumptious to assume that a whole people is capable of certain things only due to genetics. I guess Donald Trump should be working on his farm in Iowa because his German genes made him an excellent farmer and a terrible tradesman? Too bad that did not turn out to be true. Just like the millions of other Americans of German background who are NOT farmers. Or is that all due to interbreeding? Germany is one of the largest trading nations in the world, how is that even possible with their farmer genes?
What are you even talking about?
"German genes" make one a good farmer because it's a daunting task, that requires a lot of "grinding" instead of daydreaming, a lot of planning and a lot of patience. ( Historically speaking, they played their role in modernizing Russian agriculture as well - don't you know it?)
So yes, Germans make good farmers, but I never said THAT's all that there is to Germans.
They make excellent engineers, philosophers, writers, musicians - intellectuals overall too.
And yes, they produce someones like Trump as well))))


Quote:
I'm sorry but I grew up in Germany and have lived in Wisconsin for quite some time. Wisconsinites (or other Midwesterners of German background) and Germans are nothing alike at all besides their German last names. They are just mainstream white Americans who cling to their supposed heritage that is mostly lost in the American melting pot. Calling their local village fiesta Octoberfest does not make them German.
It's exactly because you GREW UP in Germany, all you'll see in Americans of German descent only the DIFFERENCE between them and "German Germans."
And of course they are different; they are Americans already first and utmost.
However to us, who grew up elsewhere - we notice these traits, we see that this part of the US ( or rather its population) is somewhat different from the rest of the country. Because other Russians who traveled across the US shared with me the same observations.

Quote:
The only reason why there are many farmers of German origin in the Midwest is because the Midwest was settled at the height of the German immigration wave and at a time when Germany was not an industrialized country, so obviously most people coming were farmers. Property tends to get passed on from generation to generation so there are still many farmers with a German heritage.
Who cares?
The fact is - they arrived in droves, and they clearly *Germanized* the area)))

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_German

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/...ryId=102523977

https://midwestweekends.com/plan_a_t...raditions.html
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Old 05-02-2018, 12:50 AM
 
14,990 posts, read 13,566,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
This is rubbish, are you from Eastern Europe? Do you seriously believe that everybody 'English' has some kind of 'pure English DNA' or everybody from Germany are genetically identical!? This racial purity business was 'put to bed' in the West a long time ago (probably since the nonsensical Nazi Aryan race rubbish), it is about time the 'East' caught up.
Are you trying to sound mildly insulting Easthome?
Because not only I hail from "Eastern Europe," but from the very heart of the evil Empire. (But then, again, you already know that by now.)
And I have little to do with "Nazi Aryan race rubbish," because you see, the difference is that Nazi theory ascribes the VALUE to racial/ethnic groups.
I don't do such thing.
I totally dig the line "In Christ, there is no Jew or Greek"; I totally get it, so...
as they used to say ( or rather sing ) -



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLyiKeCLBf4
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Old 05-02-2018, 03:17 AM
 
Location: Preussen
218 posts, read 81,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Please share with us the results of your study.
Here you go . Here's a list of those actors and their place of birth . You can pick the ones from rural areas , small towns and then check their ethnicity at ethnic-celebs if you do not believe me . I checked most of them and have not found a single one of them to be of single german ancestry . I do not think that this is coincidence . Even in those rural midwest areas people seem to be majorly of mixed ancestry .

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
So there you go. In order to "GERMANIZE" someone, you need to be GERMAN first.
And as long as the German "core value" stays in tact, they can absorb and "germanize" the newcomers, ( as long as the genes of the "newcomers" are not too destructive on the scale from one to ten, as I've already said.
So in spite of all this "melting pot" myth, Germans are still a nation, because their genetic "value core" is still there, in spite of the numerous admixtures.
And you don't have to be a majority to germanize . Bulgarians were turkic tribe and yet they speak slavic language . Hungarians speak ugric language , even though , they are obiously mostly of european descend . Only about 20 percents of todays turks are descendants of those people who conquered Constantinople . And yet they all are turks now and share the same values and customs and habits . Genes have nothing to do with it . Only culture .
There is no any melting pot myth . What is now and what used to be Germany was not inhabited only by germanic tribes , but in very large portions also by slavic , baltic and celtic tribes . Germans have big variety of the looks . How can they not be mixed geneticaly ? Of course they are .






Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post


Genetics are a stubborn thing; if to believe you, Germany wouldn't look any different from the near-by Slavic countries, but it's clearly not a case.

https://brilliantmaps.com/the-genetic-map-of-europe/
I see a lot of colours there . All of these countries look very mixed . Only Spain , Wales , Scotland look like they had one dominant (more than 80 percent ) group . Germany looks very mixed . I do not think that even one of its haplogroups is over 50 percent . It really proves how mixed geneticaly this nation is .

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post

Why should I go to Poland for that and not Russia?
No one of course still explained to me the essential difference between Russians and Poles so far, but this is what I think sometimes regarding the ( lately discussed) reluctance of Poles to accept refugees ( and people of color) in general, in their midst. ( Ditto - same goes for Russians, Ukrainians - you name it.)
So this is what I suspect; when it comes to Anglos and their NATIONAL traits, ( because THERE IS such thing as "national character,") - they tend to be rather on rational and calculative side, and thus more self-restrictive. Now Blacks ( and other people of color) on another hand have this warmth and informal laid-back attitude, (that the "vanilla people" often lack.)
Add to that good food ( and music) - these kind of variables that they bring along ( that's talking about the POSITIVE side, not the negatives.)
With Slavs, however - what positive side is there with such addition?
Slavs themselves have this "informal laid-back attitude," they are slackers plenty, they love to party and their food is as hearty as it gets.
So obviously on subconscious level they see no pluses, only minuses associated with such arrival, and hence - the negative reaction.
National character exist but it derives from culture and upbringing , not from this supposed genes (and as you showed most countries are very mixed geneticaly ) . Bohemians and kashubians are both west slavic people , and yet because they were for so long time under german influence they resemble germans far more , than for example Poles . If your theory was right that would not be possible . And yet those nations have far more in common with Germans than Poles through cultural and social impact that Germany had on them . It is unquestionable .

Last edited by WestPreussen; 05-02-2018 at 03:40 AM..
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Old 05-02-2018, 03:25 AM
 
Location: Ankara, Turkey
401 posts, read 183,280 times
Reputation: 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestPreussen View Post
Here you go . Here's a list of those actors and their place of birth . You can pick the ones from rural areas , small towns and then check their ethnicity at ethnic-celebs if you do not believe me . I checked most of them and have not found a single one of them to be of single german ancestry . I do not think that this is coincidence . Even in those rural midwest areas people seem to be majorly of mixed ancestry .



And you don't have to be a majority to germanize . Bulgarians were turkic tribe and yet they speak slavic language . Hungarians speak ugric language , even though , they are obiously mostly of european descend . Only about 20 percents of turks are descendants of those people who conquered Constantinople . And yet they all are turks now and share the same values and customs and habits . Genes have nothing to do with it . Only culture .
There is no any melting pot myth . What is now and what used to be Germany was not inhabited only by germanic tribes , but in very large portions also by slavic , baltic and celtic tribes . Germans have big variety of the looks . How can they not be mixed geneticaly ? Of course they are .








I see a lot of colours there . All of these countries look very mixed . Only Spain , Wales , Scotland look like they had one dominant (more than 80 percent ) group . Germany looks very mixed . I do not think that even one of its haplogroups is over 50 percent . It really proves how mixed geneticaly this nation is .



National character exist but it derives from culture and upbringing , not from this supposed genes (and as you showed most countries are very mixed geneticaly ) . Bohemians and kashubians are slavic people , and yet because they were for so long time under german influence they resemble germans far more , than for example Poles or Russians . If your theory was right that would not be possible . And yet those nations have far more in common with Germany than Poland through cultural and social impact that Germany had on them . It is unquestionable .
What I donít understand is are you Polish or German?
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