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Old 02-25-2014, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Melbourne
65 posts, read 84,297 times
Reputation: 74

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamford View Post
It depends where you live in the US and Europe.

Map showing Church attendance in the US, notice the bible belt emblazoned in red, whilst areas such as the North East and California are substantially more blue.

Percentage of people who don't attend Religious Services in European Countries (not sure why Israel is included?)

Religious attendance: Europe's irreligious | The Economist
Some interesting stats there. I'm very, very surprised to find that the blue areas on the map of America (in which between 24% and 33% of the population attend worship) actually have a lower percentage of worshipers than any European country (64% do not worship in the Czech Republic, which means 36% do worship in Europe's least religious country). The numbers obviously can't be exact so I'm taking them with a grain of salt, but the source is reliable.
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:00 PM
 
97 posts, read 79,653 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xboxmas View Post
With the exception of some the Latin based countries like Italy, Spain, Romania, Portugal, then other random countries like Poland and Greece, our European cousins are very non-religious. Obviously that wasn't always the case. Most of the US(and most European-Americans) is still very religious. Sure, its been on the decline overall, but its still a big thing.

When most of our European ancestors came, they were still very religious and they built churches, many in their native language. There are a lot of Lutheran Churches that were exclusively Norwegian, and now Norway is one of the least religious countries.

So when did religion go on the decline in Europe? Why?
Church played a vital role during the Iron Curtain. IMO, religion has it's part in every nation.

Consider: on that European Church Attendance list, except for Czech the other 4 Top nations are over-run by Non-European. There is a fine line between "evolving" and losing who you are.
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:18 PM
 
2,287 posts, read 3,918,814 times
Reputation: 2055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic_08 View Post
Some interesting stats there. I'm very, very surprised to find that the blue areas on the map of America (in which between 24% and 33% of the population attend worship) actually have a lower percentage of worshipers than any European country (64% do not worship in the Czech Republic, which means 36% do worship in Europe's least religious country). The numbers obviously can't be exact so I'm taking them with a grain of salt, but the source is reliable.
You're comparing apples and oranges here. The US percentage is for "people who attend worship weekly or nearly weekly" while the European percentage is for "people who never attend except for special occasions". In the Euro survey "special occasions" refers to weddings, christenings, etc. but not Easter, Christmas Eve, etc. That survey actually asks the frequency question so we can get something that's much closer to apples-vs-apples: (1) every day, (2) more than once a week, (3) once a week, (4) at least once a month, (5) only on special holy days, (6) less often, (7) never.

Since you use the Czech Republic as an example, here are the percentages for 2012:
Every day: 0.4%
More than once a week 0.8%
Once a week 4.4% .... so the comparable number vs. US states is 0.4+0.8+4.4 = 5.6%, not the 36% you inferred from 100-64
At least once a month: 3.8%
Only on special holy days: 13.9%
Less often: 17.3%
Never: 59.4% .... that number was 63.6% in 2008 hence the number in the Economist's chart.

If you add up (1)-(3) you get something that's similar to the US numbers ("once a week"). That may be a bit more conservative since the US survey also includes "nearly once a week", so for fun let's also add (4) to get "once a month".. I couldn't find the data in tabulated form but you can register on European Social Survey | European Social Survey (ESS) and play with the data. Here's what the list looks like for 2012, ordered by % once a week.

Country / % once a week / % once a month

Poland / 48.4% / 67.8%
Ireland / 39.2% / 53.4%
Slovakia / 35.9% / 46.3%
Croatia / 28.3% / 44.9% (numbers from 2008, not in 2012 survey)
Portugal / 25.2% / 39.8%
Cyprus / 25.0% / 50.5%
Romania / 24.2% / 43.3% (numbers from 2008, not in 2012 survey)
Kosovo / 22.5% / 35.1%
Spain / 17.4% / 25.4%
Greece / 16.4% / 39.6% (numbers from 2008, not in 2012 survey)
Ukraine / 15.6% / 31.4% (numbers from 2008, not in 2012 survey)
United Kingdom / 13.4% / 20.1%
Slovenia / 12.6% / 23.1%
Netherlands / 10.9% / 17.9%
Switzerland / 9.4% / 21.8%
Hungary / 8.9% / 17.0% (numbers from 2008, not in 2012 survey)
Bulgaria / 8.8% / 20.9%
Belgium / 8.2% / 13.3%
Germany / 7.4% / 17.6%
Russia / 7.3% / 18.5%
Latvia / 7.1% / 18.6% (numbers from 2008, not in 2012 survey)
Sweden / 6.1% / 11.8%
France / 6.1% / 11.7% (numbers from 2008, not in the 2012 survey)
Czech Rep / 5.6% / 9.4%
Norway / 5.3% / 10.9%
Finland / 5.1% / 11.1%
Denmark / 4.3% / 10.4%
Iceland / 3.8% / 10.5%
Estonia / 3.3% / 7.7%

Looks like the correct conclusion regarding religious attendance is the following:
- the most religious European countries (Poland, Ireland) would be among the most religious US states if they were US states
- the 3rd most religious country, Slovakia, would be below average as a US state
- the next tier (Croatia to Kosovo on that list, maybe Greece and Ukraine), while still way above the European average, would be among the least religious US states
- all other European countries are a lot less religious than even the least religious US states

That's about what I would have expected and that's how I am reading those numbers.
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:56 PM
 
Location: New Lenox, IL
4 posts, read 3,173 times
Reputation: 15
You have to look at the history of Europe. When the first Europeans came to North America, the Protestant Reformation was at its height. As a result, the people were a direct result of their time period. Then, the American Revolution took place at the height of the Enlightenment, and intellectual movement that advocated personal freedoms, individuality, and civic duty. After these time periods, you would not find such a large immigrants until the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.

While the United States took these two ideologies and turned them into a paradox: the Reformation theology/work ethic stood alongside the intellectualism and free will of the Enlightenment. They were distinct, yet they were combined. Meanwhile, in Europe, the Protestant Reformation gradually blended into the Enlightenment. The French Revolution outright banned religion. This reverberated into the early 1900s, when the French policy of laïcité (secularism) was incorporated. With the rise of the Industrial Revolution in England, Germany, and France. Socialism rose, as can be seen from the Revolution of 1848, where France established the first welfare state by giving people "the right to work" and establishing national workshops (ateliers).

Finally, after two world wars devastated the continent, Europe saw itself change drastically. Before the 1945, Europe was nearly perpetually fighting a war within itself. After 1945, not a single war touched western Europe. The Yugoslav Wars and the Greek Civil War were problematic, but they were not part of the European identity at the time. By emphasizing diplomacy and pacifism, Europe became a distinctly humanist entity. Europe is the result of a reformation-enlightenment blend, wrapped in democratic socialism with a humanist bow. Religion simply became unimportant for helping others.

Meanwhile, the United States did not have the same issues that Europe felt with the industrial revolution and the world wars were not fought on its soil. What is more, the United States was fairly isolationist during the nineteenth century and did not have a particularly close relationship with Europe. While Americans were discovering the western frontier and becoming self-reliant, the effects of the industrial revolution devastated Europeans and they needed governments to protect them.

Americans are independent and they rely on God to help them through their problems. Europeans are interdependent and lot to the community and their government when failures arise
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Denver
3,179 posts, read 2,619,490 times
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Does Europe have as many nontraditional spiritual groups? Like say this guy here. Danny Carey.org
They are growing fast here in the US.
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Old 02-26-2014, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Melbourne
65 posts, read 84,297 times
Reputation: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by barneyg View Post
You're comparing apples and oranges here. The US percentage is for "people who attend worship weekly or nearly weekly" while the European percentage is for "people who never attend except for special occasions". In the Euro survey "special occasions" refers to weddings, christenings, etc. but not Easter, Christmas Eve, etc. That survey actually asks the frequency question so we can get something that's much closer to apples-vs-apples: (1) every day, (2) more than once a week, (3) once a week, (4) at least once a month, (5) only on special holy days, (6) less often, (7) never.

Since you use the Czech Republic as an example, here are the percentages for 2012:
Every day: 0.4%
More than once a week 0.8%
Once a week 4.4% .... so the comparable number vs. US states is 0.4+0.8+4.4 = 5.6%, not the 36% you inferred from 100-64
At least once a month: 3.8%
Only on special holy days: 13.9%
Less often: 17.3%
Never: 59.4% .... that number was 63.6% in 2008 hence the number in the Economist's chart.

If you add up (1)-(3) you get something that's similar to the US numbers ("once a week"). That may be a bit more conservative since the US survey also includes "nearly once a week", so for fun let's also add (4) to get "once a month".. I couldn't find the data in tabulated form but you can register on European Social Survey | European Social Survey (ESS) and play with the data. Here's what the list looks like for 2012, ordered by % once a week.

Country / % once a week / % once a month

Poland / 48.4% / 67.8%
Ireland / 39.2% / 53.4%
Slovakia / 35.9% / 46.3%
Croatia / 28.3% / 44.9% (numbers from 2008, not in 2012 survey)
Portugal / 25.2% / 39.8%
Cyprus / 25.0% / 50.5%
Romania / 24.2% / 43.3% (numbers from 2008, not in 2012 survey)
Kosovo / 22.5% / 35.1%
Spain / 17.4% / 25.4%
Greece / 16.4% / 39.6% (numbers from 2008, not in 2012 survey)
Ukraine / 15.6% / 31.4% (numbers from 2008, not in 2012 survey)
United Kingdom / 13.4% / 20.1%
Slovenia / 12.6% / 23.1%
Netherlands / 10.9% / 17.9%
Switzerland / 9.4% / 21.8%
Hungary / 8.9% / 17.0% (numbers from 2008, not in 2012 survey)
Bulgaria / 8.8% / 20.9%
Belgium / 8.2% / 13.3%
Germany / 7.4% / 17.6%
Russia / 7.3% / 18.5%
Latvia / 7.1% / 18.6% (numbers from 2008, not in 2012 survey)
Sweden / 6.1% / 11.8%
France / 6.1% / 11.7% (numbers from 2008, not in the 2012 survey)
Czech Rep / 5.6% / 9.4%
Norway / 5.3% / 10.9%
Finland / 5.1% / 11.1%
Denmark / 4.3% / 10.4%
Iceland / 3.8% / 10.5%
Estonia / 3.3% / 7.7%

Looks like the correct conclusion regarding religious attendance is the following:
- the most religious European countries (Poland, Ireland) would be among the most religious US states if they were US states
- the 3rd most religious country, Slovakia, would be below average as a US state
- the next tier (Croatia to Kosovo on that list, maybe Greece and Ukraine), while still way above the European average, would be among the least religious US states
- all other European countries are a lot less religious than even the least religious US states

That's about what I would have expected and that's how I am reading those numbers.
Yes those numbers make a lot more sense. I must admit I was only drawing my conclusions from the map and chart posted here and I didn't actually research the survey in detail. This data is pretty much what was to be expected, although I'm surprised the UK is so high on the list. Perhaps this is because of the large Islamic population.
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Old 02-26-2014, 07:14 PM
 
2,287 posts, read 3,918,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic_08 View Post
Yes those numbers make a lot more sense. I must admit I was only drawing my conclusions from the map and chart posted here and I didn't actually research the survey in detail. This data is pretty much what was to be expected, although I'm surprised the UK is so high on the list. Perhaps this is because of the large Islamic population.
Here's the breakdown for the main religious affiliations in the UK...

(n= number of people in survey) / once a week % / once a month %

Roman Catholic (n=243) / 33.7% / 44.8%
Church of England (n=534) / 10.5% / 20.6%
Methodist (n=40) / 27.5% / 37.5%
Presbyterian (n=75) 28.0% / 49.3%
Islam/Muslim (n=63) 55.6% / 66.7%
"Not applicable" (n=1140) 2.3% / 3.6%

So the % for Muslims is indeed higher but they make up a very small % of the total people surveyed (2283)... without Muslims the UK is still at 12.2% overall.

Here's the breakdown for Germany...

(n= number of people in survey) / once a week % / once a month %

Roman Catholic (n=668) / 16.0% / 39.2%
Protestant (n=775) / 5.1% / 19.0%
Islam/Muslim (n=73) 41.1% / 50.7%
"Not applicable" (n=1292) 0.4% / 1.3%

Numbers are lower in Germany for people who identify with any religion, protestants especially.
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Old 02-26-2014, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
11,660 posts, read 8,256,923 times
Reputation: 5760
Two world wars where 100 million of its people were raped, enslaved, genocided, and tortured. Yeah I think I'd lose my faith too.

We here in America feel blessed and someone had to do the blessing.
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Old 02-27-2014, 05:31 AM
 
35 posts, read 169,725 times
Reputation: 45
Indeed, Americans take religion seriously.
In Europe, almost nobody take religion seriously, even mass attendants.
Most religious people in Europe and "cultural religious" or "power religious" (Italy).
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:52 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,268 posts, read 18,682,043 times
Reputation: 11103
I don't need religion and neither do I see any reason why I should need it.
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