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Old 03-09-2014, 11:55 PM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,101 posts, read 4,555,034 times
Reputation: 832

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Quote:
Originally Posted by witjka View Post
Hello I apologize for my English, I use Google translator. I'm from Ukraine. I am very interested to know the opinion of American citizens over military aggression Putin. On our web portals distributed information that the U.S. media justify actions of the Russian president. Is that true?
you Maydan, I guess? Lot of money already earned betraying his own people for the US money?You're from Western Ukraine, I guess.
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:08 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,130 posts, read 9,899,963 times
Reputation: 6423
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrow10 View Post
A couple days ago a United States ship was sent into the Black via the Hellespont. Not sure where it is but apparently it is in there. I didnt know about NATO being there. I believe I read that they had a few planes in the Baltic states.
Its an American destroyer, the USS Truxton. The Russians are not afraid of a single US ship so its probably meant as just symbolic aid for Romania and Bulgaria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Truxtun_(DDG-103)

Actually NATO has been in the Black Sea for a long time since Turkey has been a member of NATO since 1952. However I think that the Russian (and Soviet) Black Sea Fleet has always been more powerful then the Turkish (and Ottoman) fleet, at least for the last few hundred years.

Romania and Bulgaria are also now part of NATO since 2004.
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:10 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,101 posts, read 4,555,034 times
Reputation: 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by From Ukraine View Post
Hello everybody!
Now all in Ukraine talk about Crimea, you know certainly. I already 2 weeks watch after events from Kiev, read many soldiery and economic reasons... For us in Kiev now look like that Crimea will be got by Russia. It knows both Europe and America. For us many men prepare to war, but war probably will not be. Our government does not fight for Crimea, a result means all knew before. We enter into the European union in 2 weeks.

It is talked that this was the condition of grant of kreditov- to give the regions of Ukraine, which are paid from the Ukrainian budget.It is Crimea and East of Ukraine.Europe wants to get Ukraine without them, because it is a large problem. Russia conducts informative war in these cities, and 50 percents of habitants want to Russia. Russia means takes away Crimea and there can be East, Evropa- west and center of Ukraine. Read, that many companies already had sold the actions Americans and Europeans.

And then on all prognoses will destroy the USA Russia in the flow of 1-2 years. Russia is very weak now, it will be divided by Caucasus, China and other neighbours.

Such here prognoses...
Russia is very weak now? Ukraine apparently on the rise, so you should Russia 2 billion just for gas. What do you mean it's very interesting. Russia today is stronger than it was in Soviet times, since we do not have more than 15 republics that did not want to work, but like a lot of money and lived by Russia, after accused of occupation. With regard to the EU. You asked this in Germany? They want to help you? They can not help themselves. Germany wants to feed even today some freeloaders? Where is the promised gold for Romania? Do not be naive, without resources and trade with Russia has no chance of even a simple existence.

Last edited by Rozenn; 03-10-2014 at 06:30 AM.. Reason: Rude
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:13 AM
 
Location: Germany
261 posts, read 200,956 times
Reputation: 64
Putin said something, but I can't find the whole exact text.
Maybe one of the Russian speakers has a link.

I'm particularly interested, whether he (or other Kremlin sources)
addresses the arguments of the experts who say it's illegal.




“Putin stressed, in particular, that the steps taken by the legitimate government
in Crimea are based on the international law and are intended to defend the
legitimate interests of Crimean residents,”

[ the steps are based on it ? ]


Putin: Russia cannot ignore calls for help and it acts accordingly, in full compliance with international law,
Obama: Russia’s actions are in violation of Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity
Obama: March 16 vote would violate international law.
Putin: I support it. The steps taken by the legitimate leadership of Crimea are based
on the norms of international law and aim to ensure the legal interests of the population
of the peninsula

----------------------------------------------
I'm still curious whether this is all translated correctly or whether Putin refers
to some moral, unwritten "law" rather than the exact juristical terms.
What Court would decide this, what judge's opinion would Putin accept ?
(he graduated from international law at Leningrad university)
--------edit--------------
found this:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/redefining-territorial-integrity/495785.html

Last edited by gsgsgs; 03-10-2014 at 12:39 AM..
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:15 AM
 
Location: Germany
261 posts, read 200,956 times
Reputation: 64
Krim-Krise: Putin verstehen mit Gerhard Schröder | ZEIT ONLINE
interview in German with German ex-Chancellor Schroeder, now working for Gazprom,
old "friend" of Putin
Russia wants to an equal power to USA
afraid of being encircled
violation of the law of nations
copying Kosovo, which was also formally a violation of the UN-charta
it was a mistake to urge Ukraine for an association agreement with EU
sanctions are especially bad for Germany
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:19 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,101 posts, read 4,555,034 times
Reputation: 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by witjka View Post
Dear Americans, and your media mention that when Ukraine got rid of nuclear weapons, the United States, Britain and Russia signed an agreement stating that they will be the guarantors of the inviolability of borders and independence of Ukraine? And now Russia tries to take Ukrainian territory, but the U.S. and the UK is very slow and react poorly. What you are saying about it
On what grounds you say? Crimea? When he started called Ukrainian and who gave it to you? Khrushchev. And the agreement was not recognized legally! BUT 92-3, Russia did not want to support the Crimea, as the authorities had many corrupt politicians and already had had a fifth column. you have built these all these cities? Cities called Ukrainian of glory or Russian?
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:31 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,101 posts, read 4,555,034 times
Reputation: 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by From Ukraine View Post
1. Terms of the International monetary fund...Not to include a south and east of Ukraine... Otherwise all credits will go on payment of social needs, but not in an economy. For example Crimea is financed on 60 percents from a budget, you know probably. It does not give a country to develop.


2.Yes. Wants a west and center only.Other cities are not needed. It is my translator, excuse.

3.In the internet and friends talked. There was information, that divided industry.... Gave 50+ percents of actions of coal business concern of Finland, 50+ percents of actions of gas company to America, 50+ percents of actions of other industry of France.... There is such information. It can and not confirmed, but so a picture becomes clear...
Very clear course! I would say vague. Crimea had 60 percent of the budget of Ukraine? It's funny because the Crimea did not develop and the money that pays Russia went straight back to Kiev and they are in such an amount not returned. Who will provide your gas, oil, your goods in the EU are considered low quality. Who will pay Ukraine's debts? Even former German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder said Ukraine is the wrong policy towards Russia.
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:31 AM
 
5,097 posts, read 2,483,020 times
Reputation: 4657
I'm unsure whether I have the correct understanding of what is going on in the Ukraine. Perhaps someone that has followed the events more closely can help me understand. This is how it looks to me ...

I understand that the Ukraine govt. had to make a decision whether to join the EU. Was this a question put to the Ukraine by the EU with some sort of deadline, or is this something that grew from within the country and the request to join the EU was an internal matter? I understand that this conflict is related to that decision.

When this began, what I saw was civil unrest in the Ukraine. A group of peaceful protesters were objecting to the decision until the democratically elected President fled the country (is it President or Prime Minister?). If a democratically elected leader in Germany or England had to flee the country, the US, Canada, France should stand behind the democratically elected leader (esp: if Democracy is their religion), yet in this case, the opposite is happening. Why would these countries support the overthrow of democracy? Did they not like the decision to not join the EU?

Several countries seem to be supporting the over throw of a democratically elected leader of the Ukraine where the Gross National Debt is really low ... something like 8-12% (?) ... and in EU countries the GND is really high. Is the US GND in the 80%-ile? Russia GND is also very low.

How much of this is related to access to the Black Sea? What about the pipelines running through the Ukraine, from Russia to Germany? Is that what the West wants to control ... European pipelines?

Today I saw the news of people crying as media was shut down, people's districts being in lock down from police/soldier control.

How is this going to end? Will the US accept that not everything is negotiable, that Russia will keep control of pipelines in the Ukraine, that the US should not interfere. The leader in the Ukraine was elected with democracy, right?
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:38 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,101 posts, read 4,555,034 times
Reputation: 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsgsgs View Post
Krim-Krise: Putin verstehen mit Gerhard Schröder | ZEIT ONLINE
interview in German with German ex-Chancellor Schroeder, now working for Gazprom,
old "friend" of Putin
Russia wants to an equal power to USA
afraid of being encircled
violation of the law of nations
copying Kosovo, which was also formally a violation of the UN-charta
it was a mistake to urge Ukraine for an association agreement with EU
sanctions are especially bad for Germany
Your country is feeding almost all the EU. What do you think, you want to feed another country by Germany? In what situation in Greece, Romania, Spain, Italy today? Ukraine will also. I very much doubt it.
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:42 AM
 
5,097 posts, read 2,483,020 times
Reputation: 4657
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
Your country is feeding almost all the EU. What do you think, you want to feed another country by Germany? In what situation in Greece, Romania, Spain, Italy today? Ukraine will also. I very much doubt it.
Russia has a very big army.

So the EU did give the Ukraine a deadline in terms of joining the EU, and that led to a decision to reject the offer, and that didn't sit well with the EU, the US, and Canada, and suddenly the date to join was not so fast and fixed, so these countries supported protests and continued to support the protest after the leader of the Ukraine fled the country ... only to discover that Russian troops stood at every door.

John Kerry should have met with Putin rather than the new Ukraine leader ... in terms of equal rank and the big picture.

'A few days ago Yanukovych was compared in a leading German newspaper with Gaddafi. Everyone knows that Yanukovych was elected just three years ago the democratically elected President of the Ukraine."

http://www.zeit.de/2014/11/pro-russi...ion-eugen-ruge

Last edited by Lieneke; 03-10-2014 at 12:59 AM..
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