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Old 10-15-2017, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Russia
1,417 posts, read 421,816 times
Reputation: 572

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
Care about posting some images of Russian taiga, Brazilian jungle or American pacific west for that matter? I only wish Ukrainians were able to resist a temptation to turn everything in fast cash, but they are just people playing by the same rules as the Russians wiping out taiga.
Decided to bring him to other regions? Uncomfortable? And what to do. Talking about Ukraine,which unfortunately the Western benefactors squeeze dry and reduced to slaves. As actually has already done. Think about colonial policy of the West. Some "Opium war" are worth. And you tell me about the animal suchnost Russian. Honestly,it's ridiculous.
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Old 10-15-2017, 09:10 AM
 
5,668 posts, read 2,286,997 times
Reputation: 5890
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
Care about posting some images of Russian taiga, Brazilian jungle or American pacific west for that matter? I only wish Ukrainians were able to resist a temptation to turn everything in fast cash, but they are just people playing by the same rules as the Russians wiping out taiga.
The problem with Ukraines approach is they're allowing themselves to be raped. Predictable. There will be a steep price to pay as we of the PNW know all too well.

Russias attitude towards the environment was and still is not good. Just because there's more of it doesn't mean it's unlimited.
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Old 10-15-2017, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Russia
4,220 posts, read 2,349,826 times
Reputation: 1233
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
These boys will not let themselves to be starved to death, shot in the back of the head, driven on the German machine guns barehanded, beaten, insulted for their language and identity. They will fight back. That's what upsetting you comrade?
This lyrics was written in 1996 by a Russian poet about Russia. Upsetting thing is that it now applies to Ukraine.


https://youtu.be/BXNYseUnJ7M
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Old 10-15-2017, 06:23 PM
 
14,991 posts, read 13,569,583 times
Reputation: 6896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
It's a little more complex than that. Russias strategy is just like the USSRs. Russia knows they won't be able to defeat the EU and US/NATO in a conventional conflict or even a nuclear conflict in which all sides would lose in the end. Conventionally Russia fights with a strategic economy of force, like a Roman centurion with his gladius. They didn't use the sword to beat their opponent into the dirt by brute force alone, they stabbed at the weak spots in the opponents armor with the sword.

Russias anti aircraft defense doctrine is not about obtaining theatre level air superiority it's about denial of air superiority to an attacker and not allowing the aggressor to fulfill it's mission or making it too costly.
Gaining and maintaining air superiority is costly. Denial of that superiority is easily done. If an airstrike package is put together consisting of a dozen aircraft of various sorts to strike a hilltop outpost only 2 or 3 of those aircraft will actually carry a war load and attack the hilltop itself. Technology the USSR had in 1970 ensured that those aircraft would be obligated to fly below the treeline just to survive over the forward battle area and up to 20 miles behind it. Flying higher meant death in most instances. Obviously flying below the trees had it's hazards too and not every soldier with an AK the only one.

Anyway the second part of the strategy is mission denial. You make the guy dropping the bombs miss the target. That's real easy to do. Nowadays Russian air defense is said to be the best in the world and it could well be true. It far beyond what any of Americas "adversaries" have ever had at their disposal and getting better still.

Thanks Scrat, good to know.
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Old 10-15-2017, 07:14 PM
 
14,991 posts, read 13,569,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Watching Russian news. Democracy is treated with contempt there. 90s, Ukraine now, EU when they show some protest on the news. Its all bad where there is democracy. This is not new, Soviet news showed the same thing. You should know this if you really lived there.
For those who stubbornly keep on spewing American propaganda, one more time in slow mo;
"Democracy" Western style is directly attached to such notion as "middle class" that has money, and thus can directly influence politics. Russia ( unlike Western countries) was notably lacking this class already since tzarist times. After the fall of the Soviet Union, there was the unique opportunity to create this class in Russia, and thus to turn this country into the Western style democracy. It could have been achieved in a rather simple manner, with the help of economic reforms, targeting creation of this very class. The plan was fairly easy; during the certain period of time when Russians had excess of money, but shortage of goods, it was suggested to start sale of small enterprises to people who were willing to run small businesses - be that dry cleaners, or bakeries, or any car service or what's not. The plan for creation of private property belonging to the middle class was called "500 days," and economist Yavlinsky who was behind it, traveled to Poland and studied extensively the experience of the transitional economy there. When Yavlinsky offered this plan in Washington DC, it was promptly declined by American bankers. Not only that, but L. Summers, who was the Vice President of Development Economics and Chief Economist of the World Bank at that time, insisted that a different Russian economist would head the economic reforms in Russia, the kind of reforms that precluded the creation of this middle class in Russia, and created the Oligarchy instead. Why Oligarchy? Because when all the treasures of Russian economy have been placed in few hands, the oligarchs were ready to transfer the ownership of them to Western corporations/share with them.
I hope you somehow retained in your mind what a devastating thuggery those years were for average Russians, all while oligarchy was selling this thuggery as "freedom and democracy."
And THAT"S how the Russian enchantment with America was over, and famous song "American boy, I'll leave with you" turned into not less famous scene from the iconic movie of the nineties "Brat" ( "Brother.")

Here it goes ( I'll translate it specially for you, with a big pleasure at that; )

"Tell me American, what power is all about? Is it in money? My brother is telling me too, that power lies in money... YOU have a lot of money and so what? I for example think that power lies in truth, not money. The one who has truth on his side is stronger. You swindled someone, got your money, but did you become stronger? No, you did not. Because truth is not with you. Truth is with the one you lied to. And that means he is stronger than you."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PckuxVGlLE

And THIS boys and girls, in a nutshell describes the current conflict between Russia and America, that has its roots back in the nineties.
The only thing I need to add is that in spite of then president Yeltsin desire to please Americans on each and every account, Russia still hasn't been offered a membership in NATO.
Later, when Russians already figured out what they've got in return for letting their guard down, they don't want to see NATO anywhere close to their borders, and I don't think the majority of them would want anything to do with it, as far as the membership goes.
But I am talking of course about the general population. When it comes to current Russian government, that's a slightly different story, because a lot of people there ( starting with Putin) in fact are the leftovers of the very nineties.

Last edited by erasure; 10-15-2017 at 08:11 PM..
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Old 10-16-2017, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Russia
4,220 posts, read 2,349,826 times
Reputation: 1233
The state holiday in Ukraine. Cool tattoo on wrist.


https://images.derstandard.at/t/E959...ationalist.jpg

https://derstandard.at/2000066026274...ren-durch-Kiew
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Old 10-16-2017, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Secured. Sealed. Loved. Eternally. I <3 You Jesus!
13,330 posts, read 6,990,465 times
Reputation: 4848
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post

"Tell me American, what power is all about? Is it in money? My brother is telling me too, that power lies in money... YOU have a lot of money and so what? I for example think that power lies in truth, not money. The one who has truth on his side is stronger. You swindled someone, got your money, but did you become stronger? No, you did not. Because truth is not with you. Truth is with the one you lied to. And that means he is stronger than you."



And THIS boys and girls, in a nutshell describes the current conflict between Russia and America, that has its roots back in the nineties.
Except that "truth" for Russia doesn't mean actual truth. It means propaganda. That's why Russia weaponizes propaganda more than any other country in the world. You have unintentionally offered an insight into this mentality. Yes, it is very important for the Russian elites that the ordinary people continue to believe that they've got "truth" on their side.
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Russia
1,417 posts, read 421,816 times
Reputation: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
Except that "truth" for Russia doesn't mean actual truth. It means propaganda. That's why Russia weaponizes propaganda more than any other country in the world. You have unintentionally offered an insight into this mentality. Yes, it is very important for the Russian elites that the ordinary people continue to believe that they've got "truth" on their side.
You CNN tell you? ))) Uuuuuu.... terrible Russian )))
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:28 AM
 
Location: france
693 posts, read 382,613 times
Reputation: 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
For those who stubbornly keep on spewing American propaganda, one more time in slow mo;
...
But I feel that russian protect and support thoses oligarchy instead of attacking them, no?
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:56 AM
 
5,668 posts, read 2,286,997 times
Reputation: 5890
Quote:
Originally Posted by citoyen View Post
But I feel that russian protect and support thoses oligarchy instead of attacking them, no?
I found an article about the oligarchs of Ukraine. I'll put it up later as time for me is limited but I think the oligarchs in all nation's are elbow deep into politics regardless. It's become part of the new order or most likely it always has been.
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