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Old 04-01-2018, 01:25 PM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,565,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Ukraine has 1.6 million refugees from Russian occupied Donbas and Crimea. Seems Putin is waging war to create crisis.
Refugees seek to move away from where the war is being waged for the same reason many refugees are flowing into the West. They often flow back to the country that's most aggressively waging war. In the 80's and 90's, most of the refugees to the US came from Latin America to escape CIA-backed wars and death squads in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras, etc.
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Old 04-01-2018, 06:03 PM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,493,078 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Here's something you can do. Educate yourself about China. There's a guy called Serpentza, he's from South Africa and not a westerner who has been living in China for 10 years. All is not what it seems. You should seek truth for yourself and not allow yourself to be spoon fed propaganda.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DGwbEOc8RQc
I fail to see how this video contradicts anything I said.
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Old 04-01-2018, 06:23 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,435,844 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
I fail to see how this video contradicts anything I said.
I was not trying to contradict anything you said. I was just pointing out that you need to look deeper if you want to know how the world really works. I was raised on the cold war drivel about the Soviet Union. I go there and see things with my own eyes and learn about the country I see that I was told many lies.

Never judge without adequate knowledge.
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Old 04-01-2018, 07:12 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,853,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Correct Grega. 2014 was when it started slowing with the imposition of sanctions. From what I understand measures have been taken to correct it but the pay off is not immediate. Just like Chinas silk road, the expenditures are tremendous today but the payoff is far in the future. Possibly decades away. We shall see.

There's no reason Russia should give anything in the face of bad behavior from it's neighbors. Stand for something or fall for anything.
Or they could get out of Ukraine, which would lift the sanctions and let the economy grow again. Nah, too stupid to do that...
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Old 04-01-2018, 07:38 PM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,493,078 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
Refugees seek to move away from where the war is being waged for the same reason many refugees are flowing into the West. They often flow back to the country that's most aggressively waging war. In the 80's and 90's, most of the refugees to the US came from Latin America to escape CIA-backed wars and death squads in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras, etc.
They also came from Cuba to escape the "socialist paradise" brought forth by Castro, who received a lot of help from the Soviets.

Today we see similar things happening in Venezuela, where many are fleeing into neighboring Brazil or Colombia due to that government's failed policy.

It works both ways. If you don't look at the whole picture, then the criticism becomes dishonest.
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Old 04-02-2018, 08:20 AM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,435,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Or they could get out of Ukraine, which would lift the sanctions and let the economy grow again. Nah, too stupid to do that...
Do you actually think that would happen? It sounds like giving your weapon to a robber because he promised not to take everything you have. Look at Sakhalin Island and Japan. If Russia were to give the disputed islands back to Japan what would most likely happen? Japan would make more demands, they'd want something else.

You know what I would've done in Ukraine. The only thing understood is a club to the head.
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Old 04-02-2018, 02:35 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,853,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Do you actually think that would happen? It sounds like giving your weapon to a robber because he promised not to take everything you have. Look at Sakhalin Island and Japan. If Russia were to give the disputed islands back to Japan what would most likely happen? Japan would make more demands, they'd want something else.

You know what I would've done in Ukraine. The only thing understood is a club to the head.
Um, a normal thinking person would believe the sanctions would be lifted if the reason they were placed was satisfied.

Too late to go back to "would've done". The nation is now virulently anti-Russian 4 years after about 60% of it was pro Russian.
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Old 04-02-2018, 04:35 PM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,493,078 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Do you actually think that would happen? It sounds like giving your weapon to a robber because he promised not to take everything you have. Look at Sakhalin Island and Japan. If Russia were to give the disputed islands back to Japan what would most likely happen? Japan would make more demands, they'd want something else.

You know what I would've done in Ukraine. The only thing understood is a club to the head.
The problem with Russia keeping the Sakhalin Islands is that they got them following WW2 due to Japan's losses at the hands of a different power. The Soviets claimed them despite not fighting the Japanese in that conflict. It makes sense if they did that to Germany, but not Japan. Perhaps they were looking at payback for their loss in the 1905 war with Japan.
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Old 04-02-2018, 10:10 PM
 
26,777 posts, read 22,529,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
The problem with Russia keeping the Sakhalin Islands is that they got them following WW2 due to Japan's losses at the hands of a different power. The Soviets claimed them despite not fighting the Japanese in that conflict. It makes sense if they did that to Germany, but not Japan. Perhaps they were looking at payback for their loss in the 1905 war with Japan.
Oh but they did, MWR.
Those soldiers turned around from the Western front ( when things were done there,) and hurried to the *Eastern* front.

" The Soviet–Japanese War (Russian: Советско-японская война; Japanese: ソ連対日参戦, "Soviet Union entry into war against Japan") was a military conflict within the Second World War beginning soon after midnight on August 9, 1945, with the Soviet invasion of the Japanese puppet state of Manchukuo. The Soviets and Mongolians terminated Japanese control of Manchukuo, Mengjiang (Inner Mongolia), northern Korea, Karafuto, and the Chishima Islands. The defeat of Japan's Kwantung Army helped in the Japanese surrender and the termination of World War II.[7][8] The Soviet entry into the war was a significant factor in the Japanese government's decision to surrender unconditionally, as it made apparent the Soviet Union would no longer be willing to act as a third party in negotiating an end to hostilities on conditional terms."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet...93Japanese_War

It was the "unfinished business" with Japan since 1905, apparently.
And Russians always finish their business.
Always. It's only a matter of time.
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Old 04-02-2018, 10:27 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,853,283 times
Reputation: 6690
I think the 3 of you are confusing the Kuril Islands with Sakhalin. Sakhalin is not disputed. The Kuril Islands are. Putin's offer in 2006 to give up the 2 closest islands seems like a fair deal but its really up to Japan to work this out.
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