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Old 05-03-2018, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Russia
4,232 posts, read 2,372,720 times
Reputation: 1236

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Rejoin Russia? As if a nation can't do better than that... Do you think its still possible to fool Ukrainians into thinking Russia is better standard of living than Europe? Or keep them from understanding why Europe is so nice compared to Russia? You know they can travel there now, and see for themselves how nice Poland is compared to Russia and Belarus. Its over, that train has left the station.
Russia is also Europe.
You compare Poland and Russia, this is not correct. Russia spends large sums on military, sports, scientific budgets etc. This is a serious cost items. If Poland will protect itself, if they will build nuclear icebreakers and launches people into space, then it will be necessary to compare.

Last edited by Maksim_Frolov; 05-03-2018 at 01:03 PM..
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Old 05-04-2018, 11:50 AM
DKM
 
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
2,838 posts, read 1,019,334 times
Reputation: 2871
Well Ukraine wants to be like Poland, I'm sorry to say. They would rather have its standard of living than Russia's. If that means no icebreakers and space program, so be it. As for Poland protecting itself, uh they are doing just fine with that. One of the best armies in Europe while replacing their Soviet equipment. So well in fact they recently gave Ukraine some of their Gvozdika's as Poland is making their own AHS Krabs. Their funding is one of the highest levels in NATO. An inconvenient nation for Russia to be sure.
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Old 05-04-2018, 01:56 PM
 
61 posts, read 14,567 times
Reputation: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Well Ukraine wants to be like Poland, I'm sorry to say. They would rather have its standard of living than Russia's.
The thing is, you can’t talk on behalf of all Ukraine, what does it want or not.
Simply because it’s a ‘Patchwork’ country. That means that people in this country, especially in the west and in the east, are completely different (historically and culturally).
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Old 05-04-2018, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Russia
4,232 posts, read 2,372,720 times
Reputation: 1236
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
If that means no icebreakers and space program, so be it.
You say this easily, because you live in a country that has the best technical level in the world. I think that not all Ukrainians will agree with you. They were born in the country that had the second technical potential in the world. And they see how their technical potential is falling apart. Ukrainian elites and Ukrainian nationalists hate Russia. They have reasons for this (Russia will use Russian elites and Russian nationalists). But ordinary people understand that only in Russia they will be great again. I think it's a difficult mental scrapping.
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Old 05-04-2018, 02:46 PM
DKM
 
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
2,838 posts, read 1,019,334 times
Reputation: 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeraLub View Post
The thing is, you can’t talk on behalf of all Ukraine, what does it want or not.
Simply because it’s a ‘Patchwork’ country. That means that people in this country, especially in the west and in the east, are completely different (historically and culturally).
Well no, actually the people in the east would rather be like Poland than like Russia too. The simple reason is because its better to live in a country with a higher level of development only possible in a place where laws rule instead of criminals rule.
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Old 05-04-2018, 02:48 PM
DKM
 
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
2,838 posts, read 1,019,334 times
Reputation: 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
You say this easily, because you live in a country that has the best technical level in the world. I think that not all Ukrainians will agree with you. They were born in the country that had the second technical potential in the world. And they see how their technical potential is falling apart. Ukrainian elites and Ukrainian nationalists hate Russia. They have reasons for this (Russia will use Russian elites and Russian nationalists). But ordinary people understand that only in Russia they will be great again. I think it's a difficult mental scrapping.
Of course they will not all agree with me. Nobody anywhere all agree with anything. That doesn't mean the majority of Ukrainians don't want to be part of Europe. Russia can try to argue that the polls all lie and the elected officials are secretly under western control.

Russia can argue that Ukraine wants to be part of Russia all it wants, but this will not make it true. The revolution occurred over this very issue, its not just some minor point here. After Russia took Crimea and attacked Ukraine and sent provocateurs to Odessa and Kharkiv, nobody in Ukraine trusts them anymore. I would know more than you would first hand.
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Old 05-04-2018, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Russia
4,232 posts, read 2,372,720 times
Reputation: 1236
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Of course they will not all agree with me. Nobody anywhere all agree with anything. That doesn't mean the majority of Ukrainians don't want to be part of Europe. Russia can try to argue that the polls all lie and the elected officials are secretly under western control.

Russia can argue that Ukraine wants to be part of Russia all it wants, but this will not make it true. The revolution occurred over this very issue, its not just some minor point here. After Russia took Crimea and attacked Ukraine and sent provocateurs to Odessa and Kharkiv, nobody in Ukraine trusts them anymore. I would know more than you would first hand.
If Russia attacked Ukraine, why did Ukraine not declare war? Why did not close the border? 5 million Ukrainians work in Russia. Why did not stop the trade with Russia? The President of Ukraine has a confectionery factory in Russia.

Too much "why".

And I have a question. Why Odessa and Kharkov as part of Ukraine? This is Russian lands. Bring it back and roll wherever you want, even to hell.
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Old 05-04-2018, 05:02 PM
 
2,781 posts, read 1,024,258 times
Reputation: 1778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
Russia is also Europe.
You compare Poland and Russia, this is not correct. Russia spends large sums on military, sports, scientific budgets etc. This is a serious cost items. If Poland will protect itself, if they will build nuclear icebreakers and launches people into space, then it will be necessary to compare.
It would be more logical to compare Russia to the EU here , since it's a block. In that case, the EU has the second best Space Agency in the world. Most countries don't really need icebreakers. It's understandable why Russia has them, but it's something that only the Nordic countries need.
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Old 05-04-2018, 05:45 PM
 
15,067 posts, read 13,668,168 times
Reputation: 6934
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Wow, okay so more propaganda. Hail Stalin, the only reason the USSR won the war. Ukraine was on the same side as Russia then so its probably an important lesson for Russia if it wants to be important to the world, then they need to work with Ukraine on reforming their countries together instead of fighting against it.
Nice try, but no.
EASTERN UKRAINE was on the "same side as Russia."
WESTERN Ukraine - not so much.
That's where the worst Jewish pogroms took place, (namely in Lvov,)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lviv_pogroms

and that's where the infamous Galician Waffen Division SS was born.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_W..._(1st_Galician)


Eastern Ukrainians however, became known as martyrs in this war;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_...iet_resistance)

So it's not like Russians and Eastern Ukrainians refer to Western Ukrainians as "Nazi" for nothing.

( I don't include your friends and family here, since they are of different kind.)

Last edited by erasure; 05-04-2018 at 07:08 PM..
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Old 05-04-2018, 05:54 PM
 
15,067 posts, read 13,668,168 times
Reputation: 6934
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec Solano View Post
Oh funny!
I know how they make that military assembly)
Visiting round all houses in the town and forcibly taking out all men from 18 to 55 y.o. by buses in the field. Shoot to the camera for the first channel and return back.


erasure, don't be silly. no morons to die for two headed chicken in Donets region
Alec, it's NOT even about "dying for Russia," it's about the resistance to someone barging into your life, removing the president you voted for, and dictating you how you should live instead.
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