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Old 03-28-2014, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong / Vienna
4,557 posts, read 5,127,903 times
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bgtKoYBZVg
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Old 03-28-2014, 03:05 PM
 
15,049 posts, read 13,645,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by movingwiththewind View Post
Well, if you know that Putin have always had his own plans regarding Ukraine, not only are those "ultra right forces" not relevant in the discussion of who (exactly) took over Maidan, but this fact alone (Putin's plans) justifies the actions to overthrow the regime of his puppet Yanukovitch, whose role as Ukrainian president was what exactly?
But they are very relevant indeed. Because if truth is going to be acknowledged, who was behind that militant takeover on Maidan ( and hence who is demanding the cut from the victorious pie now,) it makes the concerns of Eastern Ukrainians who want nothing to do with the ultra-right forces (that came mostly from Western part of Ukraine) very legitimate, and with that - their desire to split from the rest of Ukraine.

Last edited by erasure; 03-28-2014 at 04:13 PM..
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Old 03-28-2014, 03:27 PM
 
15,049 posts, read 13,645,910 times
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Originally Posted by movingwiththewind View Post
Thank you for the clip.

By the way, I don't think, it's funny.
I see you've added here that you don't think that "it's funny."
What I personally find funny however, is the train of thought of this new ( or probably rather old, from the times of Orange Revolution kind of government) that once they've made their way to power on the backs of the ultra-right forces, now they can somehow tell them to "get lost," and "clear Maidan from this garbage" ( that 's the way Timoshenko referred to these people recently I've heard.) Now these people in fatigues with their demands compromise the image of the "new, democratic government" that pretends that it has nothing to do with them. The "useful idiots" got to go after they've already served their purpose, when the bonanza of Western loans is about to reach the hands of the "new democratic government."
I just don't believe that those guys with insignia of the Right Sector are going to disappear in the thin air. They were practicing how to throw Molotov's cocktails before Maidan ( and after) not with this outcome in mind.
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Old 03-28-2014, 03:29 PM
 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_6ZLqTDT-g
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Old 03-28-2014, 03:33 PM
 
1,746 posts, read 4,635,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
But they are very relevant indeed. Because if truth is going to be acknowledged, who was behind that militant takeover on Maidan ( and hence who is demanding the cut from the victorious pie now,) it makes the concerns of Eastern Ukrainians who want nothing to do with the ultra-right forces (that came mostly from Western part of Ukrainian) very legitimate, and with that - their desire to split from the rest of Ukraine.
As if Western Ukrainians are not concerned. I don't think, either Western or Eastern Ukrainians want anything to do with the far rights.

Do you really think, the half of the population of Ukraine are fascists or sympathize with them?

Last edited by movingwiththewind; 03-28-2014 at 03:44 PM..
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Old 03-28-2014, 04:09 PM
 
15,049 posts, read 13,645,910 times
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Originally Posted by movingwiththewind View Post
As if Western Ukrainians are not concerned. I don't think, either Western or Eastern Ukrainians want anything to do with the far rights.

Do you really think, the half of the population of Ukraine are fascists or sympathize with them?
I never even referred to them as "fascists" ( you know, this definition really goes back to much older times and brings the memories of the WWII, UNA-UNSO, Stepan Bandera and the rest.) I don't think it reflects quite well what they are today, so "Nationalists" in my opinion is much more befitting.
Now your "I don't think, either Western or Eastern Ukrainians want anything to do with the far rights" is one of those general phrases that don't mean anything, really.
Do all Western Ukrainians sympathize with the nationalists? Of course not, yet Nationalists/Pravy sector is indeed a child of Western/Central Ukraine, and not the Eastern part of it. Even though Eastern part of Ukraine might supply SMALL part of youth to such organizations, the ideas, the ideology, the background of it takes its roots in Western Ukraine with no doubt.

Right Sector - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

( You know very well the word that Eastern Ukrainians reserve for the the inhabitants of the Western part - "западэнцы," that they pronounce in the way typical for those areas, while rolling their eyes. )
I don't know what area you are from, but Ukrainian language sounds kinda peculiar; I love listening to it and would never want it to disappear - it's just something I wouldn't be able to speak myself))))
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Old 03-28-2014, 05:54 PM
 
1,746 posts, read 4,635,795 times
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Originally Posted by erasure View Post
I never even referred to them as "fascists" ( you know, this definition really goes back to much older times and brings the memories of the WWII, UNA-UNSO, Stepan Bandera and the rest.) I don't think it reflects quite well what they are today, so "Nationalists" in my opinion is much more befitting.
Now your "I don't think, either Western or Eastern Ukrainians want anything to do with the far rights" is one of those general phrases that don't mean anything, really.
Do all Western Ukrainians sympathize with the nationalists? Of course not, yet Nationalists/Pravy sector is indeed a child of Western/Central Ukraine, and not the Eastern part of it. Even though Eastern part of Ukraine might supply SMALL part of youth to such organizations, the ideas, the ideology, the background of it takes its roots in Western Ukraine with no doubt.

Right Sector - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

( You know very well the word that Eastern Ukrainians reserve for the the inhabitants of the Western part - "западэнцы," that they pronounce in the way typical for those areas, while rolling their eyes. )
I don't know what area you are from, but Ukrainian language sounds kinda peculiar; I love listening to it and would never want it to disappear - it's just something I wouldn't be able to speak myself))))
I don't really know what you're talking about. What does that mean?

I don't know why you think, I should know that.

You're making too many assumptions: Where I come from, my age and so on.
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Old 03-28-2014, 06:02 PM
 
15,049 posts, read 13,645,910 times
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Originally Posted by viribusunitis View Post

OMG, did you watch this video yourself?
It's actually quite condemning towards Kiev's authorities, and not so much towards Russians, although the journalist ( who looks like one of the inhabitants of famous Brighton Beach in New York ) is trying to present the grim picture of the Russian takeover.
These Ukrainian marines sound bitter when speaking of Kiev's government, the lack of leadership, and the fact that they were left behind like "blind kittens" in total uncertainty. They are saying that RUSSAN generals came to negotiate with them, while THEIR generals were sitting in "holes." They are confirming that it was never a secret for anyone that Crimea always wanted to belong to Russia, and again - they don't sound too bitter towards Russians ( particularly if to keep in mind that out of 600 of them only about 100 (or so?) decided to go back to Ukraine because of their families. And as I've already said, their attitude towards new Kiev's government is very resentful - they don't think it represents them and their interests.

So why did you even post this video?
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Old 03-28-2014, 06:21 PM
 
15,049 posts, read 13,645,910 times
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Originally Posted by movingwiththewind View Post
I don't really know what you're talking about. What does that mean?

I don't know why you think, I should know that.
But if you are not aware even of such simple thing, then you probably can't understand much the dynamics of relations between East and West in Ukraine.

Quote:
You're making too many assumptions: Where I come from, my age and so on.
You are correct, I probably shouldn't make these assumptions, because you might know less about the situation there than I've initially guessed.
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Old 03-28-2014, 06:53 PM
 
1,746 posts, read 4,635,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
But if you are not aware even of such simple thing, then you probably can't understand much the dynamics of relations between East and West in Ukraine.
This is exactly the answer I expected!

You're so predictable (and unfair!)

Unfair, because your assumption that I'm from Ukraine was probably based on the fact that my understanding of relations between Eastern and Western Ukraine is good enough, no?

Last edited by movingwiththewind; 03-28-2014 at 08:21 PM..
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