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Do you really think that the West would support Nazis?
Do you really think that the West would support mujahedin and "freedom fighters?"
Yet it did when it came to Russia.
Not because the West is supporting ( or remotely interested) in Islamic agenda, but because it follows the idea "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."
Let me re-post here the video that Ariete posted earlier on Crimea.
Among other things I have to bring to your attention to what's happening there by the end.
Approximately from 6.20 to 7.20 the Russian Army is disarming the Ukrainian soldiers, but those fatso boys on the floor with their arms behind their backs, covered with Ukrainian flags or what's not - that's already not Ukrainian soldiers - that's people from "Pravy Sector." And that's what it says in Ukrainian at 7:43;
"Crimea is going to be Ukrainian or it's going to be desolate." It's their agenda.
So yes, the West IS supporting the nationalists ( I don't call them fascist - it's a bit misleading in this case,) because that's the force that works for Western interests in Ukraine for the moment being. My prediction however that with time ( as in case with mujaheddin) it won't be so for long.
PS. Vivaldi's music is as powerful as ever in this video.
The fact is the US and EU are to blame in this as well- our hands are all dirty, not just Russia's. The US and EU are guilty of destabilization in working to fund/organize the coup that kicked the pro-Russian leadership out to get/keep Ukraine on the west's side. Putin saw what was going on and stepped in doing what he is doing now to try to win at least part of Ukraine (Crimea and maybe more) over to his side. So it's BOTH sides that are using Ukraine as their pawns and causing a mess there. Russia is 100% wrong in what they are doing, but so are we- so we have no moral high ground to stand on when we sit here and lambaste Russia for what they are doing.
I'm looking at apparent Russian motivation for their actions right now toward Ukraine. Russia was never one to fear encroaching on her neighbors taking into account her national interests. If no NATO came on post-war I'd suggest what we see that happened in the Crimea would have been a staple of its foreign policy as they looked west to Europe.
Let's go over it slowly, shall we?
Russia took over the Eastern European countries after the WWII, when it has been proven that she was in fact the target of the West ( Germany IS part of the West after all,) so creating a buffer zone in the hostile environment was justified.
After the fall of the Soviet Union however, when Russians specifically voted for Yeltsin who was all about abolition of the Soviet system VS Gorbachev, who was still trying to salvage it, non-Soviet Russia shouldn't have encountered any hostility from the West, shouldn't it? And with this, there was no need ( on Russia's behalf) in any buffer zones, hence Eastern Europe was free to go.
However with Russia letting go of her buffer zone and dropping the threatening for the West ideology didn't produce the expected result - that is the rapprochement of the US policies, NATO including.
Because if it were a case, we wouldn't have seen the expansion of US military bases all over the world, coming as close to Russian borders as it gets.
Quote:
" After having won the Cold War, the U.S. has embarked on a global grand strategy of “full spectrum” domination. The U.S. continue to expand her military footprint in countries where no prior troop presence before, adding automatically Iraq and Afghanistan through recent wars. Below is the map of U.S. military bases around the world as of 2008 "
So what's going on here? And who is the REAL aggressor here, who is striving for the world domination, who is the culprit ( yet again) of the growing world conflict? Is it Russia or is it the US?
You tell me please.
Plenty of historical periods, in both directions. How about Justinian's (of blessed memory) invasion of Italy and Spain? The west's conquest of Constantinople.
Many times over, the dividing line that represented the balance of power was somewhere in what we call today the Balkans, both since the time of Constantine's civil wars in the early Fourth Century and again for centuries after the Slavic migrations/invasions, and as recently as the post-WWII period: remember "From Stettin in the Baltic to Trieste in the Adriatic ..."? The pendulum has been swinging the other way over the past 25 years or so and now the west is encroaching.
I know.
The whole history is all about "checks and balances."
That's why I was asking what period exactly Travric was talking about.
Do you really think that the West would support Nazis?
West recognized the government in Kiev, which came to power with the support of the Nazis (military coup), it is a fact. Yanukovych did not just escaped from Ukraine, he saved his life (what he rag is another question).
And the West helps this government.
+ Also excitement in the Crimea and South-East of Ukraine began not only due to the intervention of Russia. Primarily its started because of the events in Kiev.
Last edited by Maksim_Frolov; 04-24-2014 at 12:42 AM..
I'd agree two are 'doing the tango'. But in fact who is unilaterally and absolutely changing the physical status quo and physically interfering in the affairs of a sovereign state? So much so that it seems ridiculous that the state being put upon apaprently cannot adequately protect itself from the 'infection'.
What "infection?" Do you really think that all Ukrainians unanimously are thrilled with a prospect of "Westernization?"
If you think so, this is a good read for you;
"it become easier for the pro-Western Kievan economic and political elite to embark on this project, while relying on the loyalty of Ukraine's western regions - the regions that could not wait to leave Russia's influence and try their luck at competing with the Polish plumbers for the few good positions left in Europe. These groups saw the rapid Westernisation as liberation, not as a threat."
That's Western part of Ukraine.
"But what about the heavily industrialised Ukrainian east? Those who think that it is Russia that pulls it back are deeply ignorant of the complexity of the region. The Donbas Region, which comprises 10 percent of Ukraine's population and produces 25 percent of Ukrainian exports, is inhabited by Russian-speaking people who work in mines, steel plants, and machinery factories, and who have a less cheerful view of Westernisation"
Do you really think that it's all "just Russia" that stirs discontent in these regions as Kiev tries to present it?
As I've already said these people come across as more Russians than Russians themselves.
So far this week, militant leaders have captured nine reporters, including Vice News’ Simon Ostrovsky, who was detained under the “laws of war” for what a separatist told The Daily Beast was “not reporting in a correct way.” (Six of the reporters, including three arrested alongside Ostrovsky, were subsequently released.)
Vyacheslav Ponomaryov, Slovyansk’s self-appointed “people’s mayor,” told Russian-language media Wednesday that Ostrovsky was a spy for the far-right Ukrainian nationalist group Pravy Sektor (“Right Sector”), while simultaneously highlighting his dual American-Israeli citizenship. Russian state news channel NTV then ran his claims unchallenged under the headline, “A journalist with dual citizenship turned out to be a Right Sector informant.”
The bizarre implication that Ostrovsky could simultaneously be an agent for the CIA, Mossad, and for a Ukrainian militant group that is widely perceived as anti-Semitic fits in the general line on Russian TV, which often goes beyond simply parroting militants’ statements by actually attempting to reinforce them. One of Ostrovsky’s last tweets before his capture, sent from a press conference Monday, noted that Ponomaryov was threatening to expel a journalist for asking if militants were holding the town’s de jure mayor, Nelya Stepa, under armed guard.
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