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Old 06-12-2014, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Finland
24,268 posts, read 18,817,918 times
Reputation: 11103

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscovite View Post
I'm more interested not in the "who fired whom", but how Europe is going to explain the perspectives (economical one) for the people in the East. I don't like all those combatants, but European bureaucracy doesn't impress me too. They should have started to explain it a long time ago.
What do the people in the East want us to explain? I don't understand.

edit: more info on the tanks. They were apparently left behind on Crimea, and were supposed to be shipped to Russia, but they didn't want them and gave them to the separatists. Russia has already admitted they mingle actively in the crisis in e Ukraine, so no surprised here. But as a reminder, tanks can create a lot of damage and the russophiles and terrorists have no reason to play the victim. The separatists are equally involved in the killing.

Last edited by Ariete; 06-12-2014 at 05:13 PM..
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Old 06-12-2014, 08:15 PM
 
15,050 posts, read 13,652,627 times
Reputation: 6926
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_from_europe View Post
There are many photos and videos about phosphorus bombs have been used in Slavjansk etc. Don't believe them. That's lies and propaganda.
Sure-sure, only your propaganda should be trusted.

"During a briefing, State Department spokesman Jen Psaki for the first time heard from the journalists that the day before the incendiary phosphorous bombs were used under Slavyansk. Her reaction surprised the journalists.
Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_06_13/Jen-Psaki-suggests-that-phosphorus-bombs-under-Slavyansk-belongs-to-Russia-0755/"


And this is from the rebel's site;

The inhabitants of Semeynovka express their "gratitude" to Russian media.


Last night Semyonovka has been bombed with either phosphorous or incendiary bombs. There is a number of videos on a subject posted on-line.

However instead of using a real footage, few Russian news sources used old footage from Iraq, which became the reason for Kiev-controlled TV channels to announce that there was no such attack and everything what took place in Semyonovka was a lie of Russian news agencies.
This unprofessional approach that will cost human lives yet again, is exposed by a well-known Ukrainian journalist Anatoliy Sharii, ( who currently received the political asylum in Russia from what I know.)

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Old 06-12-2014, 08:21 PM
 
15,050 posts, read 13,652,627 times
Reputation: 6926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
What do the people in the East want us to explain? I don't understand.
How/why are they going to be better off while agreeing to all conditions posed by the EU. Ditto for their industries- what will happen to them and what will happen to all those people who are currently employed in those industries?

(East Ukraine is industrial heartland of Ukraine as we all know, that's why there are a lot of Russians living there, while ethnic Ukrainians are mostly peasants living in the Western part of the country. )
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Old 06-12-2014, 08:27 PM
 
Location: Donetsk
238 posts, read 152,760 times
Reputation: 145
I saw videos from Semenovka that night, they are made in very bad quality and there's hard to see anything before pieces of those bombs fell on the ground, but comparing with videos from Iraq, looking very alike. It does not justify journalists, but as far as I know this situation is not uncommon when for lack of a better picture in the air show something looking like
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:13 PM
 
1,037 posts, read 912,048 times
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Ukrainian "National Guard" are killing people and raped a few young women in captured Krasniy Liman.
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:17 PM
 
1,037 posts, read 912,048 times
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Act of terrorism in Donetsk. A bus was blown. There were casualities.


Теракт возле здания Дома правительства ДН* в Донецке, 12.06.2014 - YouTube
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:34 PM
 
Location: Donetsk
238 posts, read 152,760 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atai J. View Post
This explosion was so powerful that I have heard it being about 10 kilometers from the place as if it was a few blocks from us, and not in the other end of town. Very scaring, we thought that aviation started to bomb us.
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Old 06-13-2014, 04:31 AM
 
1,037 posts, read 912,048 times
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Today in battle in Mariupol unidentified soldiers were recognized as american soldiers.

Attached Thumbnails
The future of Ukraine-dqploj0rs04.jpg  
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Old 06-13-2014, 04:47 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,268 posts, read 18,817,918 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
How/why are they going to be better off while agreeing to all conditions posed by the EU. Ditto for their industries- what will happen to them and what will happen to all those people who are currently employed in those industries?

(East Ukraine is industrial heartland of Ukraine as we all know, that's why there are a lot of Russians living there, while ethnic Ukrainians are mostly peasants living in the Western part of the country. )
Well, how competitive is the Eastern Ukrainian heavy industry today? At least as a part of the agreements with the EU they would benefit from the customs-free zone. Both the Russian and Ukrainian economies have been stuck in the 1991, and neither are competitive today. The don't know how to tackle globalisation and how actually develop the economy. The Donbass separatists use 1991 methods and think that if they become a Russian puppet state or join Russia, the world will turn back to 1991. But it won't happen.

Becoming something of a semi-state led by a junta waving AK's and which hardly any nation will recognise, is probably the worst option.

And it's not the EU's responsibility to do make things better, it's Ukraine's and the people in the Donbass. But if turning towards the EU, it can at least cushuon the fall. My message to the Donbass separatists are: welcome to 2014.

(And the ethnic Ukrainians are still the majority in every single Oblast.)
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Old 06-13-2014, 07:27 AM
 
4,456 posts, read 3,709,227 times
Reputation: 3109
Re: Ethnic Ukrainians ....majority in the Oblasts.


The more and longer separatists keep up the violence in Ukraine's oblasts the further the country will slip into anarchy. Of course, an event the Putinists relish. That certainly makes It much harder for the Ukrainian parliament to come to grips with all that ethnic divisiveness. Looks to me there is every intention by Russia to disabuse Ukraine of the notion that they can work toward a good functional and working democracy where the country can approach its issues in Back and forth parliamentary proceedings.

What Russia is exporting to the east is simply violent disruption to ward off probable democratic movement within the country. Par for the course as Russia is wedded to autocracy. It is in its state DNA.
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