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Old 06-15-2014, 01:52 AM
 
Location: Donetsk
238 posts, read 151,912 times
Reputation: 145

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More than 200 officers of National Space Aagency of Ukraine are fired for refusing to mobilize.
Former Acting President Alexander Turchinov 1 May signed a decree calling citizens to the army. NSA Chairman dismissed 212 officers - agency staff who didn't arrive to the Defense Ministry of Ukraine during the partial mobilization.
Among the dismissed - six colonels, 91 lieutenant colonel, 105 majors, 10 captains. They didn't want to kill civilians here and made the right choice.
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Old 06-15-2014, 05:40 AM
 
4,456 posts, read 3,690,076 times
Reputation: 3104
Quote:
What rebels? You mean Chechens? The difference here is that the separatists
are not advancing on any territory. Matter of fact, there would be zero violence
if not for Kiev's advance on east Ukraine.
One cannot look at the situation there and ignore the fact that the 'separatists' are the 'reactionaries' who have come out of the woodwork after the Crimean annexation. It apparently has given them the 'green light' to go against this thing called 'Kiev' adding violence to the rhetoric.

Interesting that this situation could play out like Iraq where jihadists ,getting absolutely no challenge, are now looking to 'take' Baghdad.

Any chance of tanks going onto Kiev? I don't know. The Ukrainian situation can wind up like 'Lotto'....sort of like in the 'hey you never know' vein. But from the looks of it Ukraine is wise and doesn't want to play that game. Like who would've thought Russia would annex the Crimea? Wars always come up with surprises. Putin has played a card that a few countries now have to wake up to. Unfortunately, the people find themselves dealing with the mess and suffer the consequences when rational political discourse to solve problems break down.
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Old 06-15-2014, 06:23 AM
 
5,823 posts, read 10,120,342 times
Reputation: 4527
Default the (political )future of Ukraine

Both Lugansk
Luhansk Oblast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and Donetz
Donetsk Oblast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
oblasts (today's insurgent Novo Rossyia), should become a new Republic of the Federation of Russia.
I know, I know, what you are going to say, what about Kharkov, what about Odessa, where also part of the population doesn't want to stay Ukraine (as it is now, a chaotic country). Well, proof that I have nothing against Ukraine as a state, I believe they should remain within Ukraine, because their leaving would mean the end of that country, which no reasonable person could wish! but as a conciliatory measure, the Kiev government should give these regions a modum of self -government-or at least Ukraine should be a more decentralized country-.
The status of Transdniestra,
Transnistria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
of Abkhazia
Abkhazia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and of south Ossetia

South Ossetia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

as de facto states, allied with Russia ,but without international recognition, are not satisfying either.
There should be referendums (as there has been in April in Crimea and in May in the Donbass) with the question : do you want either be a fully independent country, member of the UNO, or integrate the Federation of Russia, or, eventually , go back, to Moldova for Transdniestria, and to Georgia for Abkhazia and south Ossetia. The expellees could also take part in the vote. That would be actual democracy. But I'm daydreaming, the West will never allow that!
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Old 06-15-2014, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Pérouges
580 posts, read 675,411 times
Reputation: 1332
Interesting...

Quote:
The Russian government has strenuously denied that any of its tanks crossed the border into Ukraine.
But now Nato has released satellite imagery, linked to existing video material, which appears to give added weight to assertions from the Ukrainian authorities that the tanks used by separatist forces that crossed into its country just a few days ago were indeed supplied by the Russians.
Read article: BBC News - Russia and Ukraine's mystery tanks


Also: Russia did send tanks to Ukraine rebels, US says - France 24

Last edited by Rozenn; 06-15-2014 at 03:46 PM.. Reason: Copyright
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Old 06-15-2014, 07:06 AM
 
861 posts, read 978,582 times
Reputation: 307
We can daydream and as far as it's a free forum, any opinion should be respected. But we must take into account a real fact: their independence won't be recognized by other countries. So by fighting again and again, the combatans only stick the people there, who instead of living in a war zone should have an opportunity to work.


Quote:
but Kiev's inadequate government
That government is recognized by everyone. Even the president of Belarus recognized them.
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Old 06-15-2014, 07:53 AM
 
14,965 posts, read 13,542,286 times
Reputation: 6887
Kiev's government keeps on fighting for "hearts and minds of Eastern Ukrainians."
This is town of Amvrosievka that was bombed today, during the night.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfQUO6xHYZY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VsntTaiAHs#t=67

Hey, we can't stand on the way of progress, the kind where American corporations can't wait for those goodies promised to them in the Eastern Ukraine.

Last edited by erasure; 06-15-2014 at 08:02 AM..
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Old 06-15-2014, 08:13 AM
 
14,965 posts, read 13,542,286 times
Reputation: 6887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscovite View Post
We can daydream and as far as it's a free forum, any opinion should be respected. But we must take into account a real fact: their independence won't be recognized by other countries. So by fighting again and again, the combatans only stick the people there, who instead of living in a war zone should have an opportunity to work.
May be for you money don't smell and it doesn't matter who pays them, but some people still have old-fashioned patriotism and they don't want *to work* for invaders. Particularly when invaders are planning to take jobs away and do whatever they are pleased with local population, the way they see it fit.
As for "their independence won't be recognized" - they can live with that.


Quote:
That government is recognized by everyone. Even the president of Belarus recognized them.
The "president of Belarus" as you know it, is Putin's servant. He takes clues from his overlord.
He could have liked to do things differently may be, but money/economy is what stands behind today's world "real politics."
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Old 06-15-2014, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,268 posts, read 18,682,043 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
May be for you money don't smell and it doesn't matter who pays them, but some people still have old-fashioned patriotism and they don't want *to work* for invaders. Particularly when invaders are planning to take jobs away and do whatever they are pleased with local population, the way they see it fit.
As for "their independence won't be recognized" - they can live with that.
If the separatists in Donbass are fighting for a better and richer future, being a new Abkhazia or Southern Ossetia won't help them at all. Nobody wants or dares to invest or make any kind of large-scale trade trade with these "nations" with unstable and corrupted junta-governments. The Donbass would be completely dependent on Russia and their money, and would have nothing to say about anything. A simple puppet region with a puppet government and an international outcast. And if Russia don't want to buy their steel and coal, who will? Nobody! How will that help the region?

As a part of Ukraine who (probably) wants to develop the economy and transfer it to 2010's standards, with the assistance of the IMF and EU, maybe the future will actually be brigher. It worked for Poland, so why wouldn't it work for Ukraine?

BUT, as I said before, this is no good for the separatists. They want to become a part of Russia and upholds the nostalgic idea that if a part of Russia the Soviet Union will rise again, and everything will be as it was in 1980 or something. (And in matter of months.) But as that world doesn't exist anymore, and it never will, those hopes are completely unrealistic and stupid. Russia lives from their national resources, not their industry or globalised economy. Donbass don't have natural resources. In fact, what does the region have that Russia wants? Some military technology, nothing else. Do the separatist-terrorists really think it's their human capital Russia is after?

The separatists and some here try to make the impression that 100% of the people in that region is behind the separatists, but that is false. The gunmen reign with violence and terror.

But anyway, the people of Donbass should really ask themselves what they really want. But I won't keep my hopes high. We already see from these internet warriors in this thread that their ability for critical and rational thinking is on a kindergarten level.
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Old 06-15-2014, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Estonia
1,707 posts, read 1,349,416 times
Reputation: 2293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
If the separatists in Donbass are fighting for a better and richer future, being a new Abkhazia or Southern Ossetia won't help them at all. Nobody wants or dares to invest or make any kind of large-scale trade trade with these "nations" with unstable and corrupted junta-governments. The Donbass would be completely dependent on Russia and their money, and would have nothing to say about anything. A simple puppet region with a puppet government and an international outcast. And if Russia don't want to buy their steel and coal, who will? Nobody! How will that help the region?

As a part of Ukraine who (probably) wants to develop the economy and transfer it to 2010's standards, with the assistance of the IMF and EU, maybe the future will actually be brigher. It worked for Poland, so why wouldn't it work for Ukraine?

BUT, as I said before, this is no good for the separatists. They want to become a part of Russia and upholds the nostalgic idea that if a part of Russia the Soviet Union will rise again, and everything will be as it was in 1980 or something. (And in matter of months.) But as that world doesn't exist anymore, and it never will, those hopes are completely unrealistic and stupid. Russia lives from their national resources, not their industry or globalised economy. Donbass don't have natural resources. In fact, what does the region have that Russia wants? Some military technology, nothing else. Do the separatist-terrorists really think it's their human capital Russia is after?

The separatists and some here try to make the impression that 100% of the people in that region is behind the separatists, but that is false. The gunmen reign with violence and terror.

But anyway, the people of Donbass should really ask themselves what they really want. But I won't keep my hopes high. We already see from these internet warriors in this thread that their ability for critical and rational thinking is on a kindergarten level.
Yea you could call this region Dumbass region and you would be spot on.
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Old 06-15-2014, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,268 posts, read 18,682,043 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by KuuKulgur View Post
Yea you could call this region Dumbass region and you would be spot on.
Dumbass and their CParatists.
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