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Old 07-20-2014, 09:47 AM
 
13,823 posts, read 12,618,250 times
Reputation: 6460

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat View Post
Just a sidenote. This morning I was watching FOX News and the panel was discussing the situation in Ukraine. The language they were using reminded of something you would watch in the Cold War times.

Very hawkish and they were using words like "dismantle Russia". There is a lot of people here who would like to see Russia blown to pieces.
Oh, there is nothing new about it.
The Russians learned it the hard way during the nineties. Behind the smoke screen of "dismantling the Soviet System" America was really targeting Russia herself.
There is a reason why Russians supported Putin for long time after they've realized that.
Practically as in the same manner they've supported Stalin during the WWII, when they all realized that Hitler's purpose was not exactly about their "liberation from Communism," as some were trying to present the case.
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Old 07-20-2014, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
40,973 posts, read 32,696,264 times
Reputation: 57074
Not my circus, not my monkeys. If the EU has a stake in what happens in the Ukraine, let them handle it on their own. I don't recall any EU members asking for US help regarding anything going on in Ukraine. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,511 posts, read 2,528,083 times
Reputation: 2564
I don't think Putin can win Ukraine. He effectively killed Ukrainian and Russian brotherhood with the annexation of Crimea. I don't think the rebels will win unless Russia invades. They will however cause a lot of causalities for the Ukranian military.
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:55 AM
 
2,344 posts, read 3,800,501 times
Reputation: 2191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat View Post
Just a sidenote. This morning I was watching FOX News and the panel was discussing the situation in Ukraine. The language they were using reminded of something you would watch in the Cold War times.

Very hawkish and they were using words like "dismantle Russia". There is a lot of people here who would like to see Russia blown to pieces.
It is well known that the US desires for Russia to be dismantled piece by piece, it is even in the fomer Sec of Def Gates' book "Duty", describing the scene when the USSR was breaking apart, and then Sec of Def Cheney made comments like this about it openly, and I would bet the farm this has been an open secret among the intel community in which the Soviet intel system has been picking up on.

The first question Gates got asked when visiting a Russian military academy was "does the US want to break apart Russia and seize Siberia?" Of course Gates answered "no", but US movement shows otherwise.

It was well predicted, even by posters on this forum years ago, that the West/US will slowly chip at Russia. As you see, every ally Russia has had is not in conflict, or under severe western pressure. The next large move after removing allies from outside the Russia sphere is to start chipping away at the sphere. Well, the West loss central Asia for the moment, but looks to get Ukraine. There is a reason why the West is very against E. Ukraine separating, it is because the rest of Ukraine is rather worthless and would not accomplish the overall objective.

Crimea was a large surprise to the the West, in which no one predicted Russia would make a move like that, it seriously put a damper on the goal of isolating, thus start to tear apart Russia. This is why the West is really letting that one go without much fuss, the West knows Russia called the West out on that one.

Russia is facing two threats; one from the West, and one internally. What many people forget is that the second and third largest political parties in Russia are the communist and nationalist parties, two groups many Russians and the West do not want in charge.
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Old 07-20-2014, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Donetsk
238 posts, read 145,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Not my circus, not my monkeys. If the EU has a stake in what happens in the Ukraine, let them handle it on their own. I don't recall any EU members asking for US help regarding anything going on in Ukraine. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I'd say that you are right. Ukrainian people have their Big Ukrainian Dream, to be the part of Europe, but instead of hard working they preferred to crush a half of Ukrainian cities hoping that after this will come kind guys from EU and USA will give them money to fix it. They don't ask themselves why someone else have to pay for this, what will happen to economics of Ukraine and why they think that somebody cares about Ukraine. They just want to get it and then complain, like they are blaming Russia in all their problems now.
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:03 AM
 
2,344 posts, read 3,800,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
I don't think Putin can win Ukraine. He effectively killed Ukrainian and Russian brotherhood with the annexation of Crimea. I don't think the rebels will win unless Russia invades. They will however cause a lot of causalities for the Ukranian military.
Well, who would have thought German and Russian relations would be like they are now, compared to Ukrainian and Russian relations?

On the face of it there may be some hostile feelings over Crimea, but reality is everyone including Ukraine knows how and why it went the way it did. This is why there really is not much fuss over it.

You would think W. Ukraine would want the east and Crimea gone, since those people there were the reason none of the west Ukraine candidates could ever get elected. But as the rumor mill goes, Kiev has plans for the people in east Ukraine, which is to dismantle them economically, and slowly force them to disperse to other areas where their vote will be less influential (they do not have voting district lines like we do in the US to ensure everyone gets represented). And while they will basically destroy 1/3 of the economy, Kiev is hopping on the loan bandwagon to get it through the mess; Ukraine is going to end up like the typical oligarch led, IMF leech, a little worse than S. American countries, but better off than African. The West does not care how or who as long as Kiev is aligned with the West.

I wonder is how in the heck is Kiev going to think those people in east Ukraine are going to view Kiev after the constant bombings? You do not "liberate" your people by bombing and killing them.
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:14 AM
 
4,759 posts, read 1,873,849 times
Reputation: 4823
The rebs are handing over the boxes.

Rebels take full control of plane crash bodies

Quote:
So there is a reason why Western society finds it acceptable - the bombing of Ukrainian civilians, but would have never accepted "the bombing of Scotland."
As I knew already for long time, the division of value of human life doesn't exactly go along the lines of the skin color. There is something else at play.
Thanx Erasure. People "over there" have always been of lesser value to your average American/westerner, especially when it comes to Russians, Muslims ect.

Oh the whining and tears shed when these people have the audacity to fight back. 9/11 came as no surprise to me. What's really pathetic is that the people behind the grief in this world seldom if ever are brought to justice. I think that most of the worlds leaders are psychopaths anymore.

It does take a certain mindset to get to the top in politics, correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Slovakia
204 posts, read 162,905 times
Reputation: 381
Meanwhile Russian terrorists robbed passengers of the Malaysian aircraft. How typical bestial behaviour for Russians.
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:21 AM
 
4,759 posts, read 1,873,849 times
Reputation: 4823
I'd like to point out also that the leaders in this world are very quick to get into a fight these last few decades. Does anyone else see this? Just wondering.
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:21 AM
 
13,823 posts, read 12,618,250 times
Reputation: 6460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
I don't think Putin can win Ukraine. He effectively killed Ukrainian and Russian brotherhood with the annexation of Crimea. I don't think the rebels will win unless Russia invades. They will however cause a lot of causalities for the Ukranian military.
As far as "killing Ukrainian and Russian brotherhood" because of Crimea's annexation - it's a myth. "Brotherhood" became a very complicated word when Ukrainian nationalists ( aka Pravy Sector) were already setting their operations in Crimea.
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