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Old 08-25-2014, 12:49 AM
 
15,042 posts, read 13,637,675 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscovite View Post
erasure

This joke doesn't represent the reality, alas.
There is always a part of truth in every joke.
Think the invasion of Napoleon, think the WWII, and I am sure you can think of something similar in earlier times, starting with Tatar-Mongol invasion, Teutonic knights, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, so it's pretty accurate.
It's not about Russia winning EVERY war there is - no, just about the events on a major scale.

Last edited by erasure; 08-25-2014 at 01:04 AM..
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Old 08-25-2014, 01:02 AM
 
15,042 posts, read 13,637,675 times
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Another interesting quote I came across yesterday, coming from this particular historic figure

Burkhard Christoph von Münnich - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

was;

«Русское государство имеет то преимущество перед всеми остальными, что оно управляется непосредственно самим Господом Богом. Иначе невозможно объяснить, как оно вообще существует». (Граф Х.А. Миних, 1765 г.)

"The advantage that Russian state has in front of everyone else is that it's ruled directly by God Almighty himself. Otherwise it's impossible to explain how it exists at all."

( Count C. A. Munich, 1765.)

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Old 08-25-2014, 01:05 AM
 
861 posts, read 982,579 times
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erasure
Quote:
Think the invasion of Napoleon, think the WWII
I thought about it. We had the allies in those wars. In any war you should have an ally. Dimplomatic, not only military.

In 1812 we had the allies (Great Britain wanted to weaken France) and we had Prussia and Austria, who wanted us to save something, because they wanted to save this too (the territories we annexed together).
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Old 08-25-2014, 01:09 AM
 
15,042 posts, read 13,637,675 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscovite View Post
erasure

I thought about it. We had the allies in those wars. In any war you should have an ally. Dimplomatic, not only military.

In 1812 we had the allies (Great Britain wanted to weaken France) and we had Prussia and Austria, who wanted us to save something, because they wanted to save this too (the territories we annexed together).
So... where were the allies during the battle of Borodino?
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Old 08-25-2014, 01:13 AM
 
861 posts, read 982,579 times
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erasure

They were, but later, in Leipzig. And they let us to save our borders, because the wanted to save it themselves (Austria and Prussia). And Great Britain was an industrial giant at this time, our aristocracy depended on it.
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Old 08-25-2014, 01:16 AM
 
15,042 posts, read 13,637,675 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscovite View Post
erasure

They were, but later, in Leipzig. And they let us to save our borders, because the wanted to save it themselves (Austria and Prussia). And Great Britain was an industrial giant at this time, our aristocracy depended on it.
See, they always show up "later," as in the case with the WWII, when the major action is already over and Russians did the major part.
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Old 08-25-2014, 01:19 AM
 
861 posts, read 982,579 times
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erasure

I don't deny it. But we still had them. Now, I'm not sure. In spring we had a chance to have more "neutral" approach from the other countries. But we didn't stop, we went further.
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Old 08-25-2014, 01:47 AM
 
Location: Germany
261 posts, read 201,243 times
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forget history, current times are different.
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Old 08-25-2014, 01:55 AM
 
Location: Germany
261 posts, read 201,243 times
Reputation: 64
did the rebels/separatists/insurgents ever have a chance ?
just look at the map, they are much outnumbered.

So what was/is their hope ? Russia involvement ?
Negotiations ? (which IMO can only be more autonomy inside Ukraine)
Or just doing as much damage as possible to the Ukrainian army before they surrender ?
Or hoping Ukraine will just give up, too much losses, too expensive ? But then the
problem won't go away.

Where would that new state stand ? Would it get nukes ? Would it be subject to
the Budapest memorandum ?
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Old 08-25-2014, 02:53 AM
 
Location: Kharkiv, Ukraine
664 posts, read 699,327 times
Reputation: 686
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsgsgs View Post
did the rebels/separatists/insurgents ever have a chance ?
just look at the map, they are much outnumbered.

So what was/is their hope ? Russia involvement ?
Negotiations ? (which IMO can only be more autonomy inside Ukraine)
Or just doing as much damage as possible to the Ukrainian army before they surrender ?
Or hoping Ukraine will just give up, too much losses, too expensive ? But then the
problem won't go away.

Where would that new state stand ? Would it get nukes ? Would it be subject to
the Budapest memorandum ?
Russia's task is the establishment of autonomy in Eastern Ukraine, not controlled by Kyev like Transnistria or Abkhazia. Tactically this means prolonging the conflict as long as possible for his legitimacy as permanent and moving into a political sphere. The strategic objective is to prevent Ukraine's accession to the EU and NATO, in this Putin has found allies in the face of Merkel.
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