The future of Ukraine (2014, country, people, German)

[ASOT]

The fact that Hungary isn't a Slavic country, was the first thing that came to mind. Even if they abhor the EU, would they give up what they have to enter a union with those countries and get dragged down into a worse state? I doubt it.

Originally Posted by baccardi123

I am sure you didn't expect north korea to have nuclear bomb either...nor were you expecting ISIS...nor the haiti earthquake.

newsflash: Hungary currently doesn't like the eu at all. Not sure why you mention just hungary since bulgaria is nato/eu member too but my bet is you consider hungary the only "remotely civilized" country in europe and not a total "helhole" like russia/texas, and since your guess is they're the only one currently in nato/eu.

Besides...are Hungary and Macedonia actually important? Macedonia: about 2 million people, hated by mostly everyone in the region. Hungary: Not linked to anyone in the region.

need i go on?? will spare ya, no probs

[baccardi123]

Originally Posted by ASOT

The fact that Hungary isn't a Slavic country, was the first thing that came to mind. Even if they abhor the EU, would they give up what they have to enter a union with those countries and get dragged down into a worse state? I doubt it.

the soviet union wasn't slavic either...it's the guy before me who suggested the "Slavic union" - like i said i've simply thought about such term, but it's not an idea i would dream about.

Why remove Greece from the equation for example? The EU turned out to be total disaster for them. They aren't slavic too and they are of course exactly in the same region.

So we have: The Balkans + Ukraine. More or less.

And it's just your opinion that such union will be worse than the EU. Only the soviet union can be worse than the eu, otherwise it's too pessimistic.

[Scrat335]

I almost choked when I read this. LMAO!!!

Ukrainian PM: Kiev to Impose Martial Law in Donbas if Ceasefire Agreement Fails | Politics | RIA Novosti

[erasure]

Originally Posted by Scrat335

I almost choked when I read this. LMAO!!!

Ukrainian PM: Kiev to Impose Martial Law in Donbas if Ceasefire Agreement Fails | Politics | RIA Novosti

He might as well start implementing his great plan)))

Shelling, other clashes throw Ukraine cease-fire into deepening peril | Fox News

P.S. Now when I'm reading this article, things like -

"A man whose house was struck by a shell said rebels had fired from a spot nearby, and that apparently provoked a retaliatory attack from Ukrainian government troops."

I am thinking - yeah, obviously it's always the rebels who are at fault, as usual - they were the ones who bombed all those Eastern cities and villages as well, if to believe Ukrainian ( and hence- Western media.)
Reminds me of a funny poem I saw on Russian internet recently, about an "average day in life of DNR separatist" ( according to Ukrainian media.) I'm sure that Russian speakers will enjoy the original;

Обычный день сепаратиста. ( согласно укр. СМИ)

"Встал. Обстрелял свой дом из ГРАДа. Добил жену из СВД.
Не забирая дочь с детсада, пальнул по нём из БМД.
Взорвал завод, где сам работал, и шахту батьки разбомбил.
Аэродром из миномёта прицельным залпом обложил.
Гульнул по кондиционеру из своего ПЗРК -
соседей и пенсионеров поджечь не дрогнула рука.
Достав с подвала БУК российский, что Путин давеча дарил,
прямой наводкой малайзийский, к обеду Боинг подстрелил.
Распяв родных в аллее быстро, колоться и бухать пошёл.
У ДНР-сепаратиста вот так обычный день прошёл."

So it goes something like this-

"Woke up. Shelled his house from BM-21. Finished off his wife from Dragunov sniper rifle.
Not worrying with picking up his daughter from the day-care center, bombed it from the airborne combat vehicle. Then blew up the factory, where he used to work, and bombed the mine of his dad. Then carefully aimed and shelled the airport with mortar gun. For the heck of it, shot at the air-conditioner from еру man-pad *; he had no reservations in setting his neighbors and older folks on fire.
After that he pulled from a basement his BUK that Putin recently gifted him, and by dinner time with a point blank shot he brought down Malaysian Boeing. Later, after he in a hurry crucified his relatives in the dark alley, he proceeded to binge drinking and shooting drugs.
The usual day of a DNR separatist came to an end."

* Ukrainian media was trying to convince its readers for some time that the bombing of the first governmental building in Lugansk was executed by the DNR fighters, because aiming at Ukrainian airplane from the man-pad, they've allegedly somehow accidentally hit the air-conditioner in the building - that's what the referral in the poem was about.

P.S Yatzenuk is losing it, apparently. Or rather he was not realistic to begin with.

[erasure]

Originally Posted by baccardi123

the soviet union wasn't slavic either...it's the guy before me who suggested the "Slavic union" - like i said i've simply thought about such term, but it's not an idea i would dream about.

The lands/countries that were included in the Soviet Union were inherited from the imperial times and Russian Empire included them because of geopolitical/religious reasons.
What would be the common ground for your proposed union?

So we have: The Balkans + Ukraine. More or less.

But Ukrainians don't want Balkans. Balkans are not good enough - they want REAL Europe, because they consider themselves to be part of it, mistakenly separated from it through the fault of Moscow))))

[travric]

^
You know the crux of the matter is as we see that is bitterly divided between East and West. Looks as if if she goes more and more to the West to fix some of her problems Putin will more and more object to that scenario in a bad way. Kiev IS in an extremely tough position. All in all I just can't see Ukraine getting out of Russian claws. May take years but she just might have to go the 'non-aligned' way if she wants 'peace in the valleys'. This could be its way out if Europe wishes to see an end to Russian and Ukrainian carnage where families and their society is being devastated.

[baccardi123]

Originally Posted by erasure

The lands/countries that were included in the Soviet Union were inherited from the imperial times and Russian Empire included them because of geopolitical/religious reasons.
What would be the common ground for your proposed union?





But Ukrainians don't want Balkans. Balkans are not good enough - they want REAL Europe, because they consider themselves to be part of it, mistakenly separated from it through the fault of Moscow))))

OK, then go to the "real europe" (whatever this means...). But next time when your alcoholic English boss rapes you we from the balkans won't be there to help. Just saying.

[travric]

Re: Hungary leaving the EU..

While there's an arguable case that the Magyar leader Mr. Orban is enamored of Putin's way of running a state I don't think Orban would pull the plug from the EU. I think even with differences he won't risk losing that European tie.

On the other hand, if Hungary goes more to an autocracy (which some pundits think it is already) the EU could have enough and throw him out if the country doesn't change its governing ways.

[baccardi123]

Originally Posted by travric

Re: Hungary leaving the EU..

While there's an arguable case that the Magyar leader Mr. Orban is enamored of Putin's way of running a state I don't think Orban would pull the plug from the EU. I think even with differences he won't risk losing that European tie.

On the other hand, if Hungary goes more to an autocracy (which some pundits think it is already) the EU could have enough and throw him out if the country doesn't change its governing ways.

Hungary is going to import huge amount of its gas from Russia through Bulgaria and Serbia via the "south-stream" project. The EU is stopping this project which means higher energy prices for Hungary.

That's just one of the reasons why Hungary shouldn't be so Pro-Eu.

Finally...Hungary isn't so "unique" ethnically: Bulgaria and Hungary have strong historic ties. The Hungarian Attila was accompanied by the proto-bulgarians who came from present day iran - the "huns".

sorry i didn't want to hijack the thread....but bottom again is again: Ukraine should either be equal with other europeans or be a servant to the EU (or Putin).

[ramzes55]

Ukraine can exist as the state only in the union with Russia and Belarus.