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Old 10-30-2014, 05:14 AM
 
5,823 posts, read 10,127,677 times
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They have a country. It is Ukraine. The succession will be a wrong choice.

The secession (not succession) of the Lugansk and Donetsk regions is already acomplished facts (albeit the sececionists lost Slaviansk and Kramatorsk). The region is already de facto non part of Ukraine anymore.
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Old 10-30-2014, 05:18 AM
 
Location: Estonia
1,707 posts, read 1,351,328 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscovite View Post
People in Donetsk should understand that their life under the rebels' administration will be miserable. Those people can't build, they can only fight.

They have a country. It is Ukraine. The succession will be a wrong choice.
But...but the Kiev junta! Nazis! Fascists! Agsdhgsaffdfg! Amerikanskiii

How naive of the people to think that the rebels are fighting for their well-being
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Old 10-30-2014, 05:27 AM
 
861 posts, read 979,410 times
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Quote:
albeit the sececionists lost Slaviansk and Kramatorsk
Why people in these two cities do not support the rebels anymore? It seems to me that they don't want to be "independent" anymore.

These rebels can't build anything.

Poroshenko has an experience in business and politics. They don't.

Russian-speaking people in Kharkiv, Odessa and other cities - support Ukraine.

Last edited by Muscovite; 10-30-2014 at 06:14 AM..
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Old 10-30-2014, 06:51 AM
 
5,823 posts, read 10,127,677 times
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Russian-speaking people in Kharkiv, Odessa and other cities - support Ukraine.

Good for them, makes me happy. And again, the regions of Donetsk and Lugansk are de facto not part of the Ukraine Republic anymore. I acknowledge you seem to regret it, but try to accept it. Or do you want the war to start all over again ?
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:12 AM
 
861 posts, read 979,410 times
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Quote:
And again, the regions of Donetsk and Lugansk
I don't believe that the "new", "independent" "government" will manage them well.

People with higher education, businessmen will run away.

Last edited by Muscovite; 10-30-2014 at 07:29 AM..
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:35 AM
 
1,039 posts, read 907,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscovite View Post
Why people in these two cities do not support the rebels anymore? It seems to me that they don't want to be "independent" anymore.

These rebels can't build anything.

Poroshenko has an experience in business and politics. They don't.

Russian-speaking people in Kharkiv, Odessa and other cities - support Ukraine.
It's not surprising that people in occupied cities "support" Ukraine. It's problematic to don't when these cities are crawled by hundreds of the nazis.

And Poroshenko's experience of ruling the country during last months shows us how good ruler he is:
War
High debt
Social and ecenomical problems
Thousands of nazis with weapon in their arms all over the country
Kolomoyskiy which is in fact an independent ruler of Dnepropetrovsk
etc.

And I have always known that an any businessman if he would be the president of the country will always pursue his own business interests not national interests. Not to mention that he and Yatsenyuk are just puppets of Obama.
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Old 10-30-2014, 08:48 PM
 
5,661 posts, read 2,283,086 times
Reputation: 5876
Quote:
Why people in these two cities do not support the rebels anymore? It seems to me that they don't want to be "independent" anymore.

These rebels can't build anything.
Time will tell. Considering they have more energy resources than they can possibly use themselves that potential alone will go far.

Quote:
Poroshenko has an experience in business and politics. They don't.
He has done nothing but start and bumble his way through a totally unnecessary war that has for all intents and purposes completely divided his country. All he's proven is that he's an inept and ineffectual politician who is in control of little if anything. He's delivered nothing, the country is a train wreck and he doesn't not rule by the will of the people, only by the ambivalence of the majority and the terror of the mob which squashes dissent with brutality. He begs the US for money, gets next to nothing. He begs the EU for money with the same result.

If he was a good politician the Ukraine would not be where it's at, divided, destitute and headed for the trash heap of history quite possibly.

I wouldn't trust this fake to manage a ***** house.


Quote:
Russian-speaking people in Kharkiv, Odessa and other cities - support Ukraine.
Doubtful. Of course with the people too scared to speak out we can't say for sure.
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Old 10-30-2014, 09:52 PM
 
15,453 posts, read 13,443,675 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscovite View Post
Why people in these two cities do not support the rebels anymore? It seems to me that they don't want to be "independent" anymore.
A lot of people left those cities. The current political climate also drives to whom people support; you should very well know the latter does exist, a simple look at early Soviet history will demonstrate this. Also, a lot of people are apathetic to the whole thing, just as numerous people are during almost all revolts. Look at the US revolution against England, not even 50% of the population supported it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscovite View Post
These rebels can't build anything.
They physically do not have to build anything, they will create a government that will foster things to be built, just as happens after every conflict. Look at the Bolsheviks, for being what many consider a bunch of "uneducated, illiterate peasants", they took the USSR from a weak agrarian nation, to an industrial superpower, by way of defeating a supposedly experienced White Army. Oh yes, those same peasants also defeated a supposedly superior, well equipped and experienced Nazi led army which led the largest land invasion in history.

So yea, I would not really ever under estimate anyone too quick, but you could of course be right...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscovite View Post
Poroshenko has an experience in business and politics. They don't.
So, that does not mean anything in the sphere of the political arena, you of all people should know this.

He has been pretty disappointing so far, and I am not even a critic of him too much. But he is running his politics like he is his Ukrainian business, which sorry, it just does not work that way, as we all have seen. I really do not think he has much control over the country, it just happens to be no one is too against him yet to cause any problems, like the rest of the country is more on cruise control rather than being governed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscovite View Post
Russian-speaking people in Kharkiv, Odessa and other cities - support Ukraine.
See above; apathy and the fact they are on the other side, they will not risk their homes, job, and possibly their lives to speak in support.
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Old 10-31-2014, 01:11 AM
 
14,988 posts, read 13,562,871 times
Reputation: 6892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscovite View Post
Why people in these two cities do not support the rebels anymore?
Because "democratic" Ukrainians kill people that support the opposition. You didn't know that?
What do you think took place in Odessa?

Quote:
It seems to me that they don't want to be "independent" anymore.
Who told you so?

Quote:
These rebels can't build anything.
Of course they can. It's just you might not like what they have in mind. I think Mozgovoy represents what many of them stand for. These are his words;
"Касаясь еще раз вопросов экономического характера и социальной справедливости, А. Мозговой подчеркнул необходимость скорейшей национализации стратегических объектов и недр: Эти объекты были когда-то народными и вдруг стали принадлежать кому-то конкретно. Такое положение недопустимо. Средний и малый бизнес трогать нельзя. А крупные бюджетообразующие предприятия надо национализировать, они не должны принадлежать частному лицу. Особенно если у этого лица 3 или 4 паспорта. Речь идет о безопасности государства.

"Talking one more time about the questions of economy and social justice, A. Mozgovoy underlined the necessity of the urgent nationalization of the strategic industries and natural resources; "These enterprises used to belong to the people, and all of a sudden someone took over them. This is unacceptable. Small and medium business shouldn't be touched. But big enterprises that generate the revenues for the state should be nationalized; they shouldn't belong to some person, particularly when this person has three or four foreign passports. We are talking about the state security here."

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Quote:
Poroshenko has an experience in business and politics.
Why of course - he is an oligarch. And he was in politics before. Yet wasn't it the reason of Maidan - that Ukrainians didn't like the oligarchy and their politics?

Quote:
Russian-speaking people in Kharkiv, Odessa and other cities - support Ukraine.
Yes, some. And some - don't.
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Old 10-31-2014, 07:30 AM
 
1,039 posts, read 907,749 times
Reputation: 616
The first People's Court in Novorossia.

Alchevsk city


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2Ymaq4m1zY

The rapist was sentenced to death.

Last edited by Atai J.; 10-31-2014 at 08:26 AM..
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