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Old 03-05-2014, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,268 posts, read 18,809,305 times
Reputation: 11103

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pigeonhole View Post
And the invasion of Irak and the bombing of Serbia, it was in accordance with international law ?
Iraq 1991 - yes
Iraq 2003- no
Serbia - yes
Doing nothing in Rwanda - no

Slava Ukraini - Geroyam Slava
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Estonia
1,707 posts, read 1,359,761 times
Reputation: 2293
So it might be that the snipers shooting the civilians and police were the same. If that's true then who hired them, Russia or EU/US?

Breaking: Estonian Foreign Minister Urmas Paet and Catherine Ashton discuss Ukraine over the phone - YouTube
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Germany
261 posts, read 201,405 times
Reputation: 64
maybe a Russian-speaker can explain what Putin,Churkin,Medvedev,... mean,
when they say they have the right to do something, e.g. to protect
the Russian speaking citizens in Ukraine etc.

do they mean, there is actually an international law which allows it ?
is it correctly translated ?
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:35 AM
 
4,456 posts, read 3,707,855 times
Reputation: 3109
Quote:
Putin is a Frankenstein created by the West; there is a long and rather peculiar story behind this creation, but whatever it is - now go try to control him.
Well I think it's certianly evdient that there is a BIG divide between Putin's Russian-ness and the West. The more i read the more I believe the problem we see will be intractable. And throw in verbiage about fascists, radicals, 'destabilizers', pro-democrats etc etc etc sets the stage up for perhaps more provocative behavior on boths sides.

I saw a report last night on the soldiers in the Crimea, Russian and Ukrainain. Amazing on the different viewpoints that has snared Ukrainians and Russians. And that is happening around the whole country. More potential fires.

Maybe some givens?
Putin will never countenance a Ukrainian foreign policy leaning to the West. And if in the chance Kiev gets the govt they want he will never let them rest. And if elections will be held you can bet he will try with all his might to influence events where in the equation is must work out well for Russia. What Ukraine has done is considered 'treasonous'. He won't let it stand.

And I saw an interview with Saakashvili, the former Pres of Georgia. What he said stunned. He noted that in his estimation he thought Putin would have no reservations invading certain NATO countries on its borders if events go in the direction like they did in Ukraine. Point to ponder perhaps one day as we take this crisis day by day by day. Now if we see Putin's interview recently. He's a very p****d off man. He's eating nails now and spitting them out.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:42 AM
 
1,746 posts, read 4,635,795 times
Reputation: 1166
"No Easy Way Out of Ukraine Crisis"

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/05/wo...-out.html?_r=0
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Germany
261 posts, read 201,405 times
Reputation: 64
it's not all negative ...
he doesn't want to annect Krim, no invading of Ukraine
he wants free elections
not much violence by the soldiers
he at least tries to keep international law

not what we had in Czechia,Hungary,...
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Germany
261 posts, read 201,405 times
Reputation: 64
Iraq 2003 was probably illegal but not so clear, debated
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_the_Iraq_War
at least they tried to clarify it before invading.
However the main issue was the making up of the WMD-claim.
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:21 AM
 
392 posts, read 290,942 times
Reputation: 476
In a nut shell- The Ukraine is for sale to the highest bidder. The elite in Moscow live like kings...and are corrupt...The Ukrainian problem can only be settled though the shipment of MONEY....The old Ukrainian nationalists have all passed away and the new generation either wants a better life though money from Moscow or if Moscow is to cheap they will and have turned to the European Union. Typical Russian and Ukrainian youth want a western life style and dream that the EU can provide that...this is not about sovereignty or nationalism concerning this old Russian tribe...called Ukraine...this is about MONEY and Putin knows this...they want Russia to share their ill gotten gains or they are leaving.... Much like a wife who lives in poverty while her husband lives high on the hog.
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:31 AM
 
1,558 posts, read 1,052,817 times
Reputation: 3630
They are going to get money from the EU.

"The European Union prepared a $15 billion aid package to Ukraine on Wednesday and froze the assets of 18 people blamed for looting the treasury of the nearly bankrupt country." [LEFT]
Read more: Grasping for diplomatic exit, EU offers $15 billion in aid to Ukraine as envoys converge | CTV News
[/LEFT]
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:40 AM
 
5,823 posts, read 10,160,721 times
Reputation: 4536
I hope your cynical view is not true, Alec Bachlow, because it paints a sinister image of the Russian/Ukrainian youths.
I believe there are still out there some young people who are disinterested and idealistic, because a society only funded on the cult of MONEY , is doomed, as the History of Civilizations teach us since Babylon.
You seem by the way to have an unhealthy fascination for those corrupt oligarchs "who live like kings". I can't fathom the admiration some people have for the "powers that be", either in the East or in the West.
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