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Old 02-21-2014, 04:55 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,104 posts, read 9,857,633 times
Reputation: 6402

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti-USA View Post
I advise that the Ukrainian people to stand up against that revolutionThis is the same game played by America and Europe in my country (egypt) and Syria and Libya
usa and eu don't care about ukrainian They just want to isolate and destroy Russia so they trying use ukrain
This is the same scenario in egypt and syria and lybia
They use their media to persuade the Ukrainian people with lies
At the same time, use the traitors and spies to burn Ukraine

usa and eu using Fourth generation warfare (Destroyed yourself by yourself) (search on you tube)
Ukrainians must revolt against the traitors and spies of America and the European Union
Until now they are trying to support the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and Syria
But good thing is that the Egyptian people discovered the plot and still erupts against traitors in goverments and streets
Ukrainian people must remain one hand against the plots of America and Europe like egyptians Or ukraine will become, like Syria and Libya in the end

Are you really from Egypt?
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Old 02-21-2014, 08:19 PM
 
14,965 posts, read 13,542,286 times
Reputation: 6887
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
I hate to say it but the European Union and NATO have expanded as far as they can go without threatening the existence of Russia as an independent power (at least from the Russian point of view). The Russians after all are trying to build their own trade block. So trying to take Ukraine, which has traditionally been in the Russian sphere and add it to the European Union, risks making Russia more and more weaker and isolated.

After the wall fell in Berlin, the Allies in Europe and United States have gradually let the smaller countries of central and eastern Europe join NATO and the European Union. These countries; Poland, Hungary, Romania, the Baltic States, etc. understandably wanted to cement their independence from any possible return of something like the Soviet Union. But unfortunately we left the Russians out. The Russians have watched as one country after another has been allowed to join the EU and NATO except for Russia.
Truth to be told, that's how it was designed by the West in the nineties; not just to destroy the Soviet Union, but to resolve the "Russian question." This country was designated to be removed from the map of the world as a global super-power, capable of competing with the US once and for all.
The observations you are making, things you are pointing at, are nothing else but part of this design.
I am not here to blame, but to point at what many are simply unaware of, most likely.
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:48 AM
 
Location: cleveland
2,130 posts, read 3,525,306 times
Reputation: 1269
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
There are millions of Mexicans in the US, is Mexico under Putin's rule? How about Brazil with their numerous immigrants in the US? How about China, the US's lovely trade partner, with their numerous immigrants?

Speaking of oppressive countries, how is the US's "ally" Saudi Arabia doing in the human rights category?
Saudi Arabia is a joke.. they are not our friend. Israel is our only real friend in the middle east. Obama is a terrible president who has increasingly f'd up most dealings in the middle east.. we need a president like Reagan who sometimes shot from the hip but didn't let these third world muslim countries push us around. opposed to Obama who shoots from the lip... bottom line is, people come to America because its still the greatest country to live free and follow your dreams. ps- we have many Russian immigrants here in Cleveland also who seem to be prospering as they own/open Russian businesses.Russian Magazine celebrates 20 years serving the Russian community of Cleveland | cleveland.com...Yeleseyevsky Deli - Cleveland, OH . the Ukrainians have been expanding their community/businesses here for years.Parma's Ukrainian Village will commemorate Ukrainian Independence Day with parade, festival on Saturday | cleveland.com
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Old 02-22-2014, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Russia
4,220 posts, read 2,344,421 times
Reputation: 1233
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1watertiger View Post
Saudi Arabia is a joke.. they are not our friend. Israel is our only real friend in the middle east. Obama is a terrible president who has increasingly f'd up most dealings in the middle east.. we need a president like Reagan who sometimes shot from the hip but didn't let these third world muslim countries push us around. opposed to Obama who shoots from the lip... bottom line is, people come to America because its still the greatest country to live free and follow your dreams. ps- we have many Russian immigrants here in Cleveland also who seem to be prospering as they own/open Russian businesses.Russian Magazine celebrates 20 years serving the Russian community of Cleveland | cleveland.com...Yeleseyevsky Deli - Cleveland, OH . the Ukrainians have been expanding their community/businesses here for years.Parma's Ukrainian Village will commemorate Ukrainian Independence Day with parade, festival on Saturday | cleveland.com
You want to tell me about freedom, which is not in Putin's police state, where on Fridays offer sacrifices and feed the bears.
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Old 02-22-2014, 10:53 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,104 posts, read 9,857,633 times
Reputation: 6402
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Truth to be told, that's how it was designed by the West in the nineties; not just to destroy the Soviet Union, but to resolve the "Russian question." This country was designated to be removed from the map of the world as a global super-power, capable of competing with the US once and for all.
The observations you are making, things you are pointing at, are nothing else but part of this design.
I am not here to blame, but to point at what many are simply unaware of, most likely.
Pretty much agree. At the time I did not understand why the United States and the EU did not do more to help the Russians recover, especially since the western economies were booming in the 1990s. Maybe, something like a new Marshall plan.

But its far more complicated then blaming everything on the US. The Eastern Europeans wanted to join NATO and EU, both for economic reasons and defense reasons. They wanted protection from any possible return of the Soviet Union or some kind of new Russian Empire.

The West Europeans also wanted to expand the borders eastward for much the same reasons. The Germans for instance, were at the front lines for most of the Cold War and Germany would have been the main battleground if war broke out. By expanding NATO eastward, Germany gained a zone of additional protection. And since Germany is one of the world's largest exporters, expanding the EU seemed a good way to cement new markets for German goods.

Germany (German-Polish relations From the fall of Communism to accession (1989 - 2004))
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:57 AM
 
15,388 posts, read 13,409,934 times
Reputation: 20876
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1watertiger View Post
Saudi Arabia is a joke.. they are not our friend.
The US sells billions of dollars worth of arms to Saudi Arabia, and supports the Saudi regime to stay in power, thus the US sponsors Saudi's human rights abuses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1watertiger View Post
Israel is our only real friend in the middle east.
No, Israel is not a friend, countries do not have "friends". Israel depends on the US for survival, and spends millions of dollars in lobbying to ensure the funds keep flowing to Israel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1watertiger View Post
Obama is a terrible president who has increasingly f'd up most dealings in the middle east..
What has he messed up? No more or less than past presidents and other countries.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1watertiger View Post
we need a president like Reagan who sometimes shot from the hip but didn't let these third world muslim countries push us around. opposed to Obama who shoots from the lip... bottom line is, people come to America because its still the greatest country to live free and follow your dreams.
Reagan armed Iran during the Iran-Iraq War, armed the anti-Soviet Islamic radicals (that turned out great), and also did other ridiculous excursions that led to things like the USMC Beirut bombing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1watertiger View Post
ps- we have many Russian immigrants here in Cleveland also who seem to be prospering as they own/open Russian businesses.Russian Magazine celebrates 20 years serving the Russian community of Cleveland | cleveland.com...Yeleseyevsky Deli - Cleveland, OH . the Ukrainians have been expanding their community/businesses here for years.Parma's Ukrainian Village will commemorate Ukrainian Independence Day with parade, festival on Saturday | cleveland.com
I do not see what this has to do with anything.
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Old 02-22-2014, 12:07 PM
 
15,388 posts, read 13,409,934 times
Reputation: 20876
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
Pretty much agree. At the time I did not understand why the United States and the EU did not do more to help the Russians recover, especially since the western economies were booming in the 1990s. Maybe, something like a new Marshall plan.

But its far more complicated then blaming everything on the US. The Eastern Europeans wanted to join NATO and EU, both for economic reasons and defense reasons. They wanted protection from any possible return of the Soviet Union or some kind of new Russian Empire.

The West Europeans also wanted to expand the borders eastward for much the same reasons. The Germans for instance, were at the front lines for most of the Cold War and Germany would have been the main battleground if war broke out. By expanding NATO eastward, Germany gained a zone of additional protection. And since Germany is one of the world's largest exporters, expanding the EU seemed a good way to cement new markets for German goods.

Germany (German-Polish relations From the fall of Communism to accession (1989 - 2004))
The neo-cons in the white house wanted more than the USSR gone, they wanted Russia itself dismembered. Even Gates (former sec of def) wrote about Cheney's (sec of def at the time) views in his book.

Neo-cons want Russia gone, off the map, culture dissolved and merged into who ever else, even radical Islam all they care. They want to be able to get Russia in a position similar to Africa, in order to exploit its natural resources. The US does not care if it is a democracy or a dictatorship, as so long as it does what the US wants.

If not believe me, well a person can just point to US support of Saudi Arabia, a country rife with oppression; look at China, a one party state with rampant human rights abuses; and look at the democracies like France and the UK it supports all the same. If the US was really all about "democracy and human rights", it would tell China and Saudi to go "f^&% off", and promote regime change. No, the US even went out of its way to get China into the WTO, while doing all it could to keep Russia out.

Going further back, to the Sino-Soviet split; the split came as a result of destalinization in the USSR, which ran counter to the ideals in China; the US rather support China who indulged in Stalinist ideals, than support a country who started a process of destalinzation.

It can suspect this stuff is cultural, in which the Eastern Church has always been a target of the West, and more rabidly so with the extreme Protestant base as found in the US. As you will notice, every Protestant group and their brother will and is flooding into Serbia, Ukraine, and Russia, using poor economic conditions as leverage to get people to "join their church". This is why when you go to places like Cleveland, TN, you meet many Ukrainians that are all part of one or two Protestant churches there, and all work for a few employers who also run the church.
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Old 02-22-2014, 12:08 PM
 
4,572 posts, read 3,578,436 times
Reputation: 7327
The Ukraine will not have peace until it is split roughly in half, with the poorer, agrarian western portion aligned with the west, and the more industrial east siding with Russia. This also makes sense because the dominant language in the western portion is Ukranian, while the east is heavily Russian speaking.

Putin should be happy with this arrangement because he will have a more direct control of this new eastern portion that is aligned with him, given it is a buffer for the city of Moscow itself. And who wants all the poor peasants in the west anyway? Russia would be smart to get rid of it, and let it become a burden for the freedom loving west like Germany and co.

Also, China should be pleased with all this foreign inspired mayhem in the Ukraine because the event once again exposes the diehard drive of the west to destroy both Russia and China. I read the Chinese blogs and so many are watching what happens in the Ukraine, and thanking Deng Xiaoping for crushing the June 4th 1989 demonstrations. Otherwise, China would also fragment and collapse like the Ukraine is doing right now, and the Chinese will never ever be able to re emerge as a great power that it is today. Russia will be driven deeper into China's embrace after all this. Just my two cents, folks.
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Old 02-22-2014, 02:44 PM
 
Location: cleveland
2,130 posts, read 3,525,306 times
Reputation: 1269
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
The neo-cons in the white house wanted more than the USSR gone, they wanted Russia itself dismembered. Even Gates (former sec of def) wrote about Cheney's (sec of def at the time) views in his book.

Neo-cons want Russia gone, off the map, culture dissolved and merged into who ever else, even radical Islam all they care. They want to be able to get Russia in a position similar to Africa, in order to exploit its natural resources. The US does not care if it is a democracy or a dictatorship, as so long as it does what the US wants.

If not believe me, well a person can just point to US support of Saudi Arabia, a country rife with oppression; look at China, a one party state with rampant human rights abuses; and look at the democracies like France and the UK it supports all the same. If the US was really all about "democracy and human rights", it would tell China and Saudi to go "f^&% off", and promote regime change. No, the US even went out of its way to get China into the WTO, while doing all it could to keep Russia out.

Going further back, to the Sino-Soviet split; the split came as a result of destalinization in the USSR, which ran counter to the ideals in China; the US rather support China who indulged in Stalinist ideals, than support a country who started a process of destalinzation.

It can suspect this stuff is cultural, in which the Eastern Church has always been a target of the West, and more rabidly so with the extreme Protestant base as found in the US. As you will notice, every Protestant group and their brother will and is flooding into Serbia, Ukraine, and Russia, using poor economic conditions as leverage to get people to "join their church". This is why when you go to places like Cleveland, TN, you meet many Ukrainians that are all part of one or two Protestant churches there, and all work for a few employers who also run the church.
I disagree with you. but I want to point out you are wrong about the churches. in parma/Cleveland ohio , Ukrainian churches are mostly if not all catholic or orthodox.
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Old 02-22-2014, 03:04 PM
 
15,388 posts, read 13,409,934 times
Reputation: 20876
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1watertiger View Post
I disagree with you. but I want to point out you are wrong about the churches. in parma/Cleveland ohio , Ukrainian churches are mostly if not all catholic or orthodox.
Disagree with what?

Also, no kidding Ukrainian churches are mostly Orthodox and a few Catholics; you obviously missed the point of my post. The converts do not come and create new churches (that is why you will not see a Russian Protestant church), but absorbed into current churches, I even gave an example and area for you, and even will state a company, McKee Foods, hires tons of them and they all have something in common, they belong to the same Protestant church that sponsored them to come here.

I am perfectly aware of the Orthodox churches that are around as I am Orthodox, and attend regularly.
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