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Old 02-05-2015, 01:41 AM
 
Location: Russia
4,239 posts, read 2,376,743 times
Reputation: 1239

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Why Arming the Ukrainians is a Bad Idea | Brookings Institution
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:54 AM
 
Location: Russia
4,239 posts, read 2,376,743 times
Reputation: 1239
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek View Post
Your "source" is RT. Enough said.

Other, more trustworthy sources indicate the firing came from the direction of the "separatist" lines.
Video shelling places were shown through many channels, including central TV. Video RT was in first place in the search engine, so I posted it. Can you name your "more trustworthy sources", taking into account that Western and Ukrainian correspondents not presence at the Donbass (or me about it is not known?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek View Post
In any case, had Russia not invaded Ukraine's sovereign territory, in violation of all international agreements and treaties and civility, and had Russia not encouraged, funded and supplied the "separatists", no hospitals, marketplaces, schools, kindergartens, orphanages, roads, houses, apartments, offices, or churches would have been bombed by either side, nor would civilians have suffered, starved, lived in fear, refugeed, or been injured and killed.
You can see the effect. But the reasons: anti-constitutional military coup, the seizure of power by the Nazis, the massacre in Odessa and fomenting civil war. Responsibility for this lies with the current government of Ukraine. Ask your "trustworthy sources" about the investigation killings in Odessa or on Maidan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek View Post
I pray for peace for Ukraine, along with justice, autonomy, and democracy, and for those individuals and powers responsible for war crimes to meet justice.
I agree with your every word.
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Old 02-05-2015, 02:32 AM
 
Location: Russia
303 posts, read 204,362 times
Reputation: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by albion View Post
The future looks bleak for Russia "to say the least." Wait until the banks start collapsing there, I look forward to it!
Judging by the fact that you discuss the future of Russia in a topic about future of Ukraine, I conclude that you assume, that the future of Ukraine - in Russia. In general, I approve of this line of thought)
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Old 02-05-2015, 04:45 AM
 
Location: deep underground
3 posts, read 2,287 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek View Post
I pray for peace for Ukraine
That's the only thing left.
The war is a bad thing. Parties blaming each others. Many wounded bodies, much more wounded souls.
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Old 02-05-2015, 06:07 AM
 
5,823 posts, read 10,173,731 times
Reputation: 4537
Default why be happy about that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by albion View Post
The future looks bleak for Russia "to say the least." Wait until the banks start collapsing there, I look forward to it!
It might be true, but why rejoice ? are you of those people who spread "doom and gloom" and are gleeful about it ?
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Old 02-05-2015, 06:09 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,257 posts, read 18,855,720 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by pigeonhole View Post
It might be true, but why rejoice ? are you of those people who spread "doom and gloom" and are gleeful about it ?
Says you, who rejoiced when the Charlie Hebdo reporters were murdered.
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Old 02-05-2015, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Russia
4,239 posts, read 2,376,743 times
Reputation: 1239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Says you, who rejoiced when the Charlie Hebdo reporters were murdered.
You are mistaken. Nobody was happy killings. But many people said that the dead would still be alive if they respect the feelings of others.
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Old 02-05-2015, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,257 posts, read 18,855,720 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
You are mistaken. Nobody was happy killings. But many people said that the dead would still be alive if they respect the feelings of others.
Not you personally, Maxim, but at least indirectly pigeonhole was saying the attacks were a good thing: http://www.city-data.com/forum/37923915-post53.html
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Old 02-05-2015, 06:40 AM
 
10,532 posts, read 8,468,391 times
Reputation: 19291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post

You can see the effect. But the reasons: anti-constitutional military coup, the seizure of power by the Nazis, the massacre in Odessa and fomenting civil war. Responsibility for this lies with the current government of Ukraine. Ask your "trustworthy sources" about the investigation killings in Odessa or on Maidan.

What seizure of power by "Nazis"?? Or rather, what "Nazis"?? If you are referring to the Right Sector and other similar Ukrainian parties, they control only 1.5% of Ukraine's legislative body. 98.5% of the legislators are not right-wingers.

The ex-president of Ukraine voluntarily fled to Russia, under his own power. He was not even arrested, much less held, by his opponents. He abandoned his elected post and in doing so, abandoned the people of Ukraine, whom he had sworn to defend and protect, for his own interests. He's hardly suffered since, as he's been taken under Putin's wing - and took public Ukrainian funds with him when he voluntarily departed.

Have you seen the pictures of his elaborate private rustic "palace" outside of Kyiv? He certainly did not live modestly, and spent public hrivnas on his huge estate, which is now a public park.

The deaths in the Odessa fire last spring were not a "massacre". I agree that was a tragic incident, of which there have been far too many in Ukraine over the last year.

The demonstrations on the Maidan were hardly a "civil war", and preceded the legal and democratic election of Ukraine's current representatives and president. The current conflict in Ukraine is in opposition to that democratically elected government, and while of course there are some who do not support those representatives, as is the case in any democracy, the "loyal opposition" is not what is causing the present conflict. Russia and her supporters - the "disloyal opposition" - bear that blame.

Russia is supplying men and materials, insidiously spreading distorted "new" and other propaganda to both Russian citizens and people in eastern Ukraine, has blocked many, many other news sources and has harassed, arrested, and imprisoned many journalists who would present views contrary to the "party line", has cracked down on demonstrations by those who bear other views and who oppose Russia's involvement in Ukraine, has secretly cremated the remains of the war dead, and lied to their families about their sons' fates.

I think there is a much higher percentage of extreme nationalists in power in Russia right now, Putin and other former KGB personnel being among them. Russia has a long, long history of suppressing opposition and movements towards democracy both within Russia and in her neighbors: Hungary, the former Czechoslovakia, through the murderous Holodymor famine in Ukraine during Stalin's reign, and now in modern Ukraine, much to the cost of the security and the well-being of the citizens of all of these places. Russia is a bully who equates power with control.

Have you read the just-published theory that Putin suffers from prenatal brain damage and Asperger's Syndrome, which combine to form his character? It's an interesting, if far-fetched theory, and I'd ascribe his lack of empathy, extreme nationalism, extreme need for control, and harsh punitive views of those who oppose him to other causes than mild cerebral palsy, as I know others with far worse CP who are nothing like Putin whatsoever. However, Asperger's might be on the table as a potential contributor to Putin's personality traits. Check it out - the claims/theory were first made in 2007, long before the current conflict in Ukraine, but in light of current developments, they are most interesting.


I agree with your every word.
I am glad we have some common ground. I am grieved by the conditions affecting civilians in eastern Ukraine at present, and cannot understand why the "separatists" refused Ukraine's proposal for a three-day humanitarian truce to evacuate civilians from the Debaltseve/Vuhlehirsk("Uglegorsk") area, where so much suffering, terror, and violence are occurring. There are no excuses for their refusal to do this.

Are you aware that there is a large orphanage for school-age children in Vuhlehirsk/Uglegorsk, along with many other orphanages in this part of Donetsk? I pray that all these children were evacuated to safety prior to the current horrors, but can find no word of their fate. Many Americans adopted children from this orphanage, which had an old, worn building but good caretakers who loved the children and did their best to care for them.

If Russia would just go home, tend to her own people and her own business (both of which are crying out for attention), and let Ukraine remain Ukraine, none of this at all would be occurring.
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Old 02-05-2015, 06:47 AM
 
10,532 posts, read 8,468,391 times
Reputation: 19291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amok View Post
Judging by the fact that you discuss the future of Russia in a topic about future of Ukraine, I conclude that you assume, that the future of Ukraine - in Russia. In general, I approve of this line of thought)
What a childishly ridiculous argument.

Not only are you unable to communicate effectively and clearly in written English, but you are also unable to understand simple logic, much less debate.
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