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Old 07-27-2015, 09:30 PM
 
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re: " You discuss the dangers of "nationalism" of PS with a flaming Russian nazi imperialist comrade Erasure. How crazy is that?"

RM....I can understand your position. However, I'd think the events of some past history do touch upon the 'dangers' of nationalism. Very very evident I think. It can cause the downfall of kingdoms and their peoples.

The future of Ukraine I'd say does depend on how the country's various nationalistic tendencies play out in the population both in dialogue and in behavior. Now I'd think it would have nothing to do with erasure being a 'flaming Russian nazi' or spy for that matter!...;-)... Just sayin'.
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Old 07-28-2015, 12:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
DNA genealogy shows that Poles, Ukrainians, Belarusian and Russian are the closest people.
And poles are the closest known descendants of the original slavic tribe that broke away from a common baltic/slavic ancestor tribe. There is a high probability other slavic groups are descendants of the break away proto poles. Thus, using your logic, everything is Polish, and you are just a spoiled pole that must be re united with mother Poland.

Quote:
Residents of the western and central regions of Russia - is the Slavs. Religion, language and culture also Slavic. From Finno-Ugric population remained only names of rivers and towns.
What does it mean slavic culture? Better yet, what is slavic religion? What does it mean to be slavic? What have happened to the indigenous finnish tribes displaced by slavs? Were they exterminated or incorporated into the "slavic" collective? Those are some unregurgitated claims you use.

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All this have scientific proof. Do you have scientific proof of your words?
looks like you took that proof straight from zavtra.ru. Russian genetics is studied, and some European Russian do share central European genome (come to mother Poland, my friend), the rest shows all kinds of influences, but mostly finno ugric. Finno ugric tribes left a big mark on the Russian genotype. Actually, Russians are split into finno ugric and "pure" groups. And the later are most likely just assimilated Ukrainians. Two Sources of the Russian Patrilineal Heritage in Their Eurasian Context


Quote:
Russian language is a mixture of Kiev and Novgorod dialect (Novgorod dialect brings differences from other Slavic languages). You can read about it in lectures academic Zaliznyak (analysis of the Novgorod birch bark letters).
it is serious linguistic fantasy considering lack of 1000 years old vernacular slavic sources. Written language was not the language of the masses back then. 18th century is a definite mark that divides intelligible and non intellible written language (for modern Russian speakers). 18 th century language re design was not the first one, Russians were fond of the Greek monks messing with written language, but 18th century modernization was eventually imposed on the very diverse masses as a standard spoken language. Before that uncounted spoken dialects and a standard written languages just coexisted in parallel, just like Italian and Latin. Another example of planned language change took place in the 18th Century under the reign of Peter the Great.

http://linguistics.byu.edu/classes/l...s/russian.html
Nope, it was not "upgrade", it was drastic change to be imposed as a standard spoken

Last edited by RememberMee; 07-28-2015 at 12:27 AM..
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Old 07-28-2015, 12:41 AM
 
4,984 posts, read 5,049,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
re: " You discuss the dangers of "nationalism" of PS with a flaming Russian nazi imperialist comrade Erasure. How crazy is that?"

RM....I can understand your position. However, I'd think the events of some past history do touch upon the 'dangers' of nationalism. Very very evident I think. It can cause the downfall of kingdoms and their peoples.

The future of Ukraine I'd say does depend on how the country's various nationalistic tendencies play out in the population both in dialogue and in behavior. Now I'd think it would have nothing to do with erasure being a 'flaming Russian nazi' or spy for that matter!...;-)... Just sayin'.
Unlike PS, comrade Erasure is highly vocal about his absentee nationalism/imperialism and his hatred of the scheming Anglo Saxons. I guess you find his very detailed views to be mild and non dangerous as compared to the alleged nationalism of PS. What is so nationalist about PS as compared to Erasure or you? You just take Russian demonization as granted and go to speculate about the dangers of PS from there without getting too specific about nationalism of PS (many members of which are just plain Russians or Russian speakers). That is the thing about the Russian propaganda, a simple desire for the Ukrainian state/language/ethnicity to exist is a terrible act of nazism. Nothing else, just those 3 things, and the Russian propaganda and nazi citizenry would demonize and label you. What nationality are you? Do you want your country to exist? Do you want your language and identity to exist? If it is yes and yes, you would be called a neo nazi, fascist, and hell knows what else if you were an Ukrainian.
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Old 07-28-2015, 05:46 AM
 
Location: Russia
4,220 posts, read 2,349,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
it is serious linguistic fantasy considering lack of 1000 years old vernacular slavic sources.
0_0 Such sources exist. Birch bark manuscripts. Most of them are from Novgorod, but it's been found in other cities. Birch bark manuscripts found every year. Linguists conducted the analysis of these documents and the results are very interesting.

Everything else will write later.
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Old 07-28-2015, 07:05 AM
 
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RM... I am wishing like you to have Ukraine out of the clutches of Vlad's fingers. If you would read my posts you and I are not so off the mark. But in my opinion Ukraine is not only fighting Russia but those internally. Vlad loves that. Gives him a plank to play around with more dangerous games. My position is Ukraine needs to make sure she is handling internal matters well.
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Old 07-29-2015, 12:45 AM
 
Location: Russia
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Originally Posted by travric View Post
RM... I am wishing like you to have Ukraine out of the clutches of Vlad's fingers.
Why do you want this?
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Old 07-29-2015, 11:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
Unlike PS, comrade Erasure is highly vocal about his absentee nationalism/imperialism and his hatred of the scheming Anglo Saxons.
Are you telling me that Anglo-Saxons ( Americans specifically) are not scheming when it comes to world affairs? A bunch of choir boys they are))) As for "hatred" - look who is talking. Start paying attention at your own posts))))


Quote:
I guess you find his very detailed views to be mild and non dangerous as compared to the alleged nationalism of PS. What is so nationalist about PS as compared to Erasure or you?
Uh-oh Travric... I didn't know you were a Russian nationalist.
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Old 07-30-2015, 06:27 AM
 
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Re: 'Why do you want this?'

To let Ukraine decide its own destiny without dealing with 'outside' pressures.

And further I am extremely disappointed and perplexed why a member of the Security Council uses a veto to obstruct justice for those who were murdered in the course of an international flight. Russia's paranoia and distrust of Europe is pervasive. Par for its course now in the modern age.
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Old 07-30-2015, 01:49 PM
 
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I'll brush up on the basic definitions shamelessly abused by the Russian comrades here.

Nazism is an extreme variety of nationalism postulating superiority of one nation/ethnicity over the lesser nations. Nazism is an ideology of an established nation seeking to expand its living space or to achieve other amazing things (i.e. assimilation into collective or extermination) at the expense of the "inferior" or otherwise invalid, undeserving nations/ethnicities.

Nazism, neo nazism, ultra neo nazism are not just mindless labels Russian comrades can use to demonize. If one would look at Russians, Russian culture and conditionings (including this long thread) through the glasses of this basic definition, the only honest conclusion one could make: nazism is an integral part of the Russian mainstream, from top to bottom. Even emigration rarely cures endemic Russian nazism, it is so imbedded in the psyche. Labeling Ukrainian nationalists "nazi", "neo nazi" and "ultra neo nazi" is pure propaganda and demonization unrooted in definitions or facts.

Last edited by RememberMee; 07-30-2015 at 02:11 PM..
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Old 07-30-2015, 02:05 PM
 
4,984 posts, read 5,049,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Are you telling me that Anglo-Saxons ( Americans specifically) are not scheming when it comes to world affairs? A bunch of choir boys they are))) As for "hatred" - look who is talking. Start paying attention at your own posts))))

Define "scheming"? Compared to the bloody backwardness of the Russia, yes, Americans are choir boys, isnt that obvious? USA has a clear picture of its interests, and it relies on finding of mutual benefits way more than it relies on rude military force, the mightiest force world has ever seen. Had the modern Russians, so insecure in their domination urges, possessed the capabilities of USA, even the darkest dystopian authors would not have been imagimative enough to predict the outcome.
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