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I am more appalled by the number of killed (Ukrainian troops) they've mentioned another day (can't find it right away to give the link.)
Over 3,000 in Debaltsevo cauldron.
Can it be true?
I heard troop losses were high all taken together, the dead, wounded and unaccounted for/desertions. I think the number is more like around 500 to 1000 killed, wounded, POWs. There was only about 3 to 5 thousand in the entire area (supposedly) to begin with. Fact is the Ukr armed forces command structure has no real clear idea just what they had anywhere at any time. Nor does the NAF know exactly what they have.
I think it's safe to say if there were 3000 Ukr soldiers in the pocket a month ago 2000 managed to run the gauntlet or get out by other means with heavy casualties. 1000 died or were taken prisoner.
NAF suffered losses in manpower also.
Material losses for Ukr were substantial. It's said there were over 100 tanks alone in full working order or salvageable. APCs, MTLBs and trucks too. The nonworking wrecks too will yield a store of spare parts when scrapped. I saw one tank a complete write off but the engine worked just fine. The NAF mechanics definitely have the talent to keep an armored force rolling.
What's really important here is the fact that the NAF is WINNING THE FIELD. Just like at Kursk in 1943 the Russian took heavy losses but those losses could be minimized in the long run because the Soviets could recover and repair what they lost in a matter of weeks. The Germans had to drag off what they could in a hurry which was not much and it was harder for them to replace the losses. Don't forget too that the Battle Of Kursk was only 1 fracas in a whole series of battles that summer. All of which the Nazis lost in the end.
I heard troop losses were high all taken together, the dead, wounded and unaccounted for/desertions. I think the number is more like around 500 to 1000 killed, wounded, POWs. There was only about 3 to 5 thousand in the entire area (supposedly) to begin with. Fact is the Ukr armed forces command structure has no real clear idea just what they had anywhere at any time. Nor does the NAF know exactly what they have.
I think it's safe to say if there were 3000 Ukr soldiers in the pocket a month ago 2000 managed to run the gauntlet or get out by other means with heavy casualties. 1000 died or were taken prisoner.
NAF suffered losses in manpower also.
Material losses for Ukr were substantial. It's said there were over 100 tanks alone in full working order or salvageable. APCs, MTLBs and trucks too. The nonworking wrecks too will yield a store of spare parts when scrapped. I saw one tank a complete write off but the engine worked just fine. The NAF mechanics definitely have the talent to keep an armored force rolling.
What's really important here is the fact that the NAF is WINNING THE FIELD. Just like at Kursk in 1943 the Russian took heavy losses but those losses could be minimized in the long run because the Soviets could recover and repair what they lost in a matter of weeks. The Germans had to drag off what they could in a hurry which was not much and it was harder for them to replace the losses. Don't forget too that the Battle Of Kursk was only 1 fracas in a whole series of battles that summer. All of which the Nazis lost in the end.
In Wikipedia ( I think) they put the figure of 6,000 Ukrainian troops in Debaltsevo ( total.)
If that's true, how many managed to escape (err, sorry "retreat in organized manner" according to Poroshenko. )
As for NAF winning the field - here is the latest statement from Zaskharchnko ( him addressing OBSCE - he sent them an official note -either Ukrainian troops stop shelling DNR villages/cities and pull their heavy weapons away to designated line ( according to Minsk agreement,) or NAF return all their heavy weapons to old positions. One or the other. Pretending to be "blind" won't work for OBSCE any longer.
And he too, is saying that Ukrainian army is not capable of fighting, it's losing the field battles, so they shouldn't "huff and puff" any longer, trying to dictate their own conditions.
Zakharchenko sounds here as a person who had enough of all this nonsense.
Lefty news sources are nothing but pure, anashamed apologetics for the Russian Imperial Fascism. Dont look for pro Ukrainian analysis here, it is 100% Russian propaganda paraphrased by the left leaning English speakers, counterpunch is messed bad too. There are plenty of the articles on Ukraine, so I just give the name for a website: Truthdig: Drilling Beneath the Headlines, browse through archives if interested, 100% Russian apologetics if you are into that stuff. Actually, nobody represents Ukrainian point of view in USA. It is ukrainians who should be given a chance to express their views.
I am thoroughly convinced. He's a recruited/paid/volunteer troll. This paragraph is exactly what they tell you to do when you sign up at the web site.
You've made a false claim, I called you a liar, I rationalized me calling you a liar, I provided a reference to a key role of the Russian hate propaganda in Ukrainian conflict. What does it have to do with me hating Russians? Keep it rational. I hate lies, hypocrisy and the regimes that turn people in the willing cattle for the rulers to play with and subdue others.
same with maidan Crimea, Russian propaganda created an alternative reality, prepared the ground for nazi invasion followed by the ununiformed regulars.
I've read your link about Ekaterina Vologzheninova...it's interesting but...tell me plz just for example imagine an ordinary USA woman from...Austin for example...and she starts to post in her social network lots of video with point of view of Islamic State...will FBI or CIA be interested in her?
Запроси своїх найближчих та найбільш надійних друзів на сайт Інформаційних війск України — i-army.org, на якому вони мають вступити у військо — підписатись на розсилання щоденних завдань. Це дуже важливо з огляду на нашу інформаційну боротьбу проти зовнішнього агресора.
Чекай найближчим часом на наступне завдання.
До зв'язку!
--
З повагою,
Штаб Інформаційних військ України
In english.
Congratulations to you, rookie Tidacha!
Connected Forces Headquarters Information Ukraine .
Your first task will be very simple.
Invite your closest and most trusted friends to the site Information viysk Ukraine - i-army.org, where they join the army - subscribe to newsletters daily tasks . This is important in view of our information fight against external aggressors .
"For that reason, anyone pointing out that arming the regime in Kiev would strengthen fascists and neo-Nazis is instantly accused of being a Putin propagandist:"
That's why they are calling me a Putin propagandist.
Connected Forces Headquarters Information Ukraine .
Your first task will be very simple.
Invite your closest and most trusted friends to the site Information viysk Ukraine - i-army.org, where they join the army - subscribe to newsletters daily tasks . This is important in view of our information fight against external aggressors .
Williams_13, I dont watch tv, but I read newspapers and listen radio, browse internet. Russian point of view is well represented by the homegrown apologists for Putin. Ukrainian point of view does not get any coverage. The clown like Stephen Cohen gets all imaginable coverage despite his glaring ignorance (as for a professor) and bias. Deep conspiracy radio infotainment is 99% pro Russian.
Lefty news sources are nothing but pure, anashamed apologetics for the Russian Imperial Fascism. Dont look for pro Ukrainian analysis here, it is 100% Russian propaganda paraphrased by the left leaning English speakers, counterpunch is messed up bad too. There are plenty of the articles on Ukraine, so I just give the name for a website: Truthdig: Drilling Beneath the Headlines, browse through archives if interested, 100% Russian apologetics by the gurus of the Left if you are into that stuff. Actually, nobody represents Ukrainian point of view in USA. It is ukrainians who should be given a chance to express their views.
I've never heard about Stephen Cohen here in Russia, before you gave me a link...
First article about Ukraine i saw at truthdig.com was about killing health care by their goverment..
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