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with such logic (or the lack of) in mind, you should refrain from debating on this issue.
Ariete is a very cool smart guy he's just looking at the small picture (Putin=evil) he just needs to broaden his horizons.
PS. Ariete you can still think Putin is evil and still be pro Ukraine, I don't care about that, I just want all of us to be aware of the facts. Good people can do bad things and bad people can do good things, the world isn't black and white. The people you root for are not exempt from making questionable choices. And the people you despise can still garner respect.
Ariete is a very cool smart guy he's just looking at the small picture (Putin=evil) he just needs to broaden his horizons.
PS. Ariete you can still think Putin is evil and still be pro Ukraine, I don't care about that, I just want all of us to be aware of the facts. Good people can do bad things and bad people can do good things, the world isn't black and white. The people you root for are not exempt from making questionable choices. And the people you despise can still garner respect.
That was what I meant.
The whole Ukraine crisis, Europe and NATO should take at least 50% responsibilities. But this is what they did: They were aggressively expanding (of that's justified because it is the west, and if Russia expands, it is aggression) to the extent Russia felt threatened: imagine the US sets military base in Ukraine. Then there was some anti-Russia protest in Kiev, CIA etc, like they always do (think about Syria later), jumped to support and fund those anti-government forces and helped them to remove a democratically elected president (they wanted the so-called "rebel" in Syria to do the same thing yet failed) just because he is pro Russia and chose a pro-EU one. When Russia reacted, naturally, these idiots claim it is 100% Putin's fault. Then the west and the US after all the accusation and so called "sanctions", decided it is not worth it to fight for Ukraine and basically recognized the annexation of Crimea, although officially they keep accusing Russia. But the fact is Ukraine was used just as a puppet and now it is left to hang dry by the west. Nobody cares about it.
Here is the thing, they don't want Scotland/Catalonia to separate and they want to respect the "will of the people". But when 97% of people in Crimea actually wants to join Russia, people's will doesn't matter any more, because Russia is always bad.
The whole Ukraine crisis, Europe and NATO should take at least 50% responsibilities. But this is what they did: They were aggressively expanding (of that's justified because it is the west, and if Russia expands, it is aggression) to the extent Russia felt threatened: imagine the US sets military base in Ukraine. Then there was some anti-Russia protest in Kiev, CIA etc, like they always do (think about Syria later), jumped to support and fund those anti-government forces and helped them to remove a democratically elected president (they wanted the so-called "rebel" in Syria to do the same thing yet failed) just because he is pro Russia and chose a pro-EU one. When Russia reacted, naturally, these idiots claim it is 100% Putin's fault. Then the west and the US after all the accusation and so called "sanctions", decided it is not worth it to fight for Ukraine and basically recognized the annexation of Crimea, although officially they keep accusing Russia. But the fact is Ukraine was used just as a puppet and now it is left to hang dry by the west. Nobody cares about it.
Here is the thing, they don't want Scotland/Catalonia to separate and they want to respect the "will of the people". But when 97% of people in Crimea actually wants to join Russia, people's will doesn't matter any more, because Russia is always bad.
Well to be fair the referendum in Crimea is questionable because of the polling questions, there was no keep the status quo option (probably wouldn't change out come though), but in any case in Kurdistan 92.73% of the people voted yes for independence, but guess what not going to happen, unless the US doesn't mind loosing Turkey as a NATO member, and Russia wont recognize it unless it want's to loose friendship with Syria and Iran and fail to make Turkey leave NATO. Russia is probably secretly rooting that US recognize it so that Turkey joins SCO.
Well to be fair the referendum in Crimea is questionable because of the polling questions, there was no keep the status quo option (probably wouldn't change out come though), but in any case in Kurdistan 92.73% of the people voted yes for independence, but guess what not going to happen, unless the US doesn't mind loosing Turkey as a NATO member, and Russia wont recognize it unless it want's to loose friendship with Syria and Iran and fail to make Turkey leave NATO. Russia is probably secretly rooting that US recognize it so that Turkey joins SCO.
Questionable or not, it is the majority that wants to join Russia. Did you see people crying and cursing when Russia troups marched in?
As to Kurds, of course. It is never about fair or not. It is always about what scenario is better for the big powers, which doesn't give a flying rat's a$$ about the people there.
I simply don't understand why Turkey so desperately wants to be part of the EU. Come on, you are a muslin country, with 97% territory located in Asia. Stop humiliating yourself.
The whole Ukraine crisis, Europe and NATO should take at least 50% responsibilities. But this is what they did: They were aggressively expanding (of that's justified because it is the west, and if Russia expands, it is aggression) to the extent Russia felt threatened: imagine the US sets military base in Ukraine. Then there was some anti-Russia protest in Kiev, CIA etc, like they always do (think about Syria later), jumped to support and fund those anti-government forces and helped them to remove a democratically elected president (they wanted the so-called "rebel" in Syria to do the same thing yet failed) just because he is pro Russia and chose a pro-EU one. When Russia reacted, naturally, these idiots claim it is 100% Putin's fault. Then the west and the US after all the accusation and so called "sanctions", decided it is not worth it to fight for Ukraine and basically recognized the annexation of Crimea, although officially they keep accusing Russia. But the fact is Ukraine was used just as a puppet and now it is left to hang dry by the west. Nobody cares about it.
Here is the thing, they don't want Scotland/Catalonia to separate and they want to respect the "will of the people". But when 97% of people in Crimea actually wants to join Russia, people's will doesn't matter any more, because Russia is always bad.
Who did aggressively expand, NATO? The Baltics, Poland and others joined voluntarily, no one was pointing a gun to their head. Of course, for Russia it sucked, totally understandable. But it doesn't justify the steps Russia took to respond to this. Before the invasion of Ukraine and annexation of Crimea, NATO (US) presence in the vicinity of Russia was very minimal, not a real threat to Russia by any means.
Who did aggressively expand, NATO? The Baltics, Poland and others joined voluntarily, no one was pointing a gun to their head. Of course, for Russia it sucked, totally understandable. But it doesn't justify the steps Russia took to respond to this. Before the invasion of Ukraine and annexation of Crimea, NATO (US) presence in the vicinity of Russia was very minimal, not a real threat to Russia by any means.
Don't be naive. International relations are all about the balance. You can say all those countries joined voluntarily yes, but you broke the balance, badly.
Cuba also voluntarily allowed the USSR to have its missiles in its territory. Did the US say "well, since Cube didn't have a gun to its head, there is nothing we should do"?
Imagine China today reached an agreement to have military base in Canada (or Mexico). Do you think the US will say "since it's a mutual agreement, I have no objections"?
NATO threat to Russia depends on how Russia feels, not how NATO feels.
Don't be naive. International relations are all about the balance. You can say all those countries joined voluntarily yes, but you broke the balance, badly.
Cuba also voluntarily allowed the USSR to have its missiles in its territory. Did the US say "well, since Cube didn't have a gun to its head, there is nothing we should do"?
Imagine China today reached an agreement to have military base in Canada (or Mexico). Do you think the US will say "since it's a mutual agreement, I have no objections"?
NATO threat to Russia depends on how Russia feels, not how NATO feels.
What missiles where/are there in the 2004 NATO member countries? Don't resort to whatabaoutism, SU nuclear warheads in Cuba and Poland and some smaller countries being part of NATO and hosting no armament that would threaten Russia is a very balanced comparison indeed.
What missiles where/are there in the 2004 NATO member countries? Don't resort to whatabaoutism, SU nuclear warheads in Cuba and Poland and some smaller countries being part of NATO and hosting no armament that would threaten Russia is a very balanced comparison indeed.
For Russia, the proximity with no buffer region is threatening enough.
It is never about fairness. It is about balance between big powers.
And you didn't answer why Cuba can't voluntarily have missiles of the USSR - shouldn't these countries have the right to make such an agreement? It violated no international laws, did it?
Questionable or not, it is the majority that wants to join Russia. Did you see people crying and cursing when Russia troups marched in?
As to Kurds, of course. It is never about fair or not. It is always about what scenario is better for the big powers, which doesn't give a flying rat's a$$ about the people there.
I simply don't understand why Turkey so desperately wants to be part of the EU. Come on, you are a muslin country, with 97% territory located in Asia. Stop humiliating yourself.
I know the situation of Crimea quite well, my family is from there, and I'm happy and so is my family that Crimea joined Russia. As far as NATO expansion it's a little bit more tricky. Poland, Baltic states, and Balkans joined NATO because they perceive Russia as a threat, it was Russia's fault for having bad relationships with these countries, and threatening them to not join makes them realize all the more that they need to. Plus Russia has nukes so realistically the US will never go to war with Russia, the worst they can do is blockade the country but Russia still has other over land trade partners such as China if that ever happened, which it wouldn't since that's an act of war. Soft power is much more powerful than hard power, I'd suggest Russia focus on building relationships with neighboring countries rather than threatening them.
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