U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-25-2014, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
11,884 posts, read 10,387,633 times
Reputation: 8050

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
It is interesting to ponder. I'm Irish and I think it is because of the history of the Irish. They were discriminated against and treated badly by a larger invading neighbour. They lost 2/3 of the population to Famine and immigration. I guess the Irish survived despite their history. If you read Irish history it is really one of struggle to survive and keep an Irish identity.

I suppose you answered the question in your comment about "No blacks, dogs or Irish". Irish had to fight to survive and suffered a lot of discrimination which makes people band together and your identity stronger.

I think a lot of Americans have Irish ancestry from the potato famine. Irish history is one of oppression and struggle whereas the English were the oppressers. Also the US broke free from Britain so feel more empathy with oppressed people like the Irish, American Indians etc. Just some thoughts on the subject. It would be interesting to see other people's thoughts on why certain identities are stronger?

I think you hit the nail on the head. I always think back to the book Stuff White People Like and one of them was essentially "being Irish":

"Most of the time, white people consider celebrations of European heritage to be racist unless they omit large swathes of the 16th through 20th centuries. But since the Irish never engaged in colonialism and were actually oppressed it is considered acceptable and encouraged to celebrate their ancestry. For this reason, 100% of white people are proud to claim that they are somewhat Irish."

Both of my parents are the first generation in The US from Ireland and we do refer to ourselves as "Irish" but this is in the Northeast part of the USA (Philly, NYC, Boston), where whites are more in tune with their ancestry and often inquire about others. Of course when I travel outside the country I always say I am American as do my parents. And if someone is not asking me about my Irish ethnicity here they usually don't know.

In fact, my Mom's favorite holiday is July 4th and I'm sure that was instilled in her when she was younger watching her proud parents become American citizens. Here in Philly, it actually seems Italian is also a "cool" ancestry for whites to claim to be (although there are also plenty of Italian-Americans only a generation or two removed).

Last edited by 2e1m5a; 03-25-2014 at 07:53 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-25-2014, 05:06 PM
 
Location: London
4,360 posts, read 3,653,404 times
Reputation: 1990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
It is interesting to ponder. I'm Irish and I think it is because of the history of the Irish. They were discriminated against and treated badly by a larger invading neighbour.
The English actually were the first to unify Ireland. It was run by small heavies. The land ownership was the problem in Ireland, which was the same in England and still is - 0.66% of the population own 69% of the land in the UK. The Irish Land Commission was set by London to solve the problem. It was dissolved in 2000. There was also a famine in England and other parts of Europe at the same time as the Irish famine.

The English were responsible for keeping Scots kilt and the formation of the piped bands - they do that sort of thing.

The "No blacks, dogs or Irish" was because they were drunken yobs, no other reason. The Irish were oppressed, but no more than the Welsh, English or Scots. Maybe the English should have risen as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-25-2014, 05:25 PM
 
Location: North West Northern Ireland.
20,695 posts, read 19,518,175 times
Reputation: 3107
Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
There is an Irish strain in me on both sides of the family from about 150-200 years ago. We have no connection with Ireland whatsoever and I never regarded myself as being "Irish". No more than I regard myself being Scots or Welsh or Scandinavian. I am English because I was born and bought up here. I find it odd that Americans call themselves "Irish" when they have one line amongst many coming from Ireland. I watched the film Captain Phillips and he told the pirates he was American but Irish. So they called him "Irish". It seems being "Irish" in the USA is a status badge. But it wasn't that long ago in the USA hotels and taverns would have the signs, "No blacks, dogs or Irish".

I have always wondered why some races wear their race on their sleeves and shout it out loud at times. I do not feel the need to wave English flags once a year, I know who I am and do not need to remind myself.
I actually find it offensive because it just seems as though they can brand about the Irish image and drop and pick it up when they choose when really they can't. Quite irritating.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-25-2014, 05:28 PM
 
Location: North West Northern Ireland.
20,695 posts, read 19,518,175 times
Reputation: 3107
Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
The English actually were the first to unify Ireland. It was run by small heavies. The land ownership was the problem in Ireland, which was the same in England and still is - 0.66% of the population own 69% of the land in the UK. The Irish Land Commission was set by London to solve the problem. It was dissolved in 2000. There was also a famine in England and other parts of Europe at the same time as the Irish famine.

The English were responsible for keeping Scots kilt and the formation of the piped bands - they do that sort of thing.

The "No blacks, dogs or Irish" was because they were drunken yobs, no other reason. The Irish were oppressed, but no more than the Welsh, English or Scots. Maybe the English should have risen as well.
As someone who lives in Northern Ireland and has a fair idea about my history I can certainly tell that the English did not respect the locals in any shape or from. Basically they treated them like blacks were treated.

Now I am most certainly and utterly not a Republican! But I would agree that the Irish were not respected. There is no point in lying. Not saying they were killed but they were treated like heathens.

Scotland does not have a look in.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-25-2014, 07:24 PM
 
Location: West Los Angeles
9,997 posts, read 9,826,439 times
Reputation: 9901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
They lost 2/3 of the population to Famine and immigration.
Don't you mean emigration?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-25-2014, 07:27 PM
 
Location: West Los Angeles
9,997 posts, read 9,826,439 times
Reputation: 9901
Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
I have always wondered why some races wear their race on their sleeves and shout it out loud at times. I do not feel the need to wave English flags once a year, I know who I am and do not need to remind myself.
I read somethere that it's actually considered hateful to wave a St. George's cross flag -- is there any validity to that?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-25-2014, 08:04 PM
 
2,646 posts, read 4,066,834 times
Reputation: 2447
Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
The English actually were the first to unify Ireland. It was run by small heavies. The land ownership was the problem in Ireland, which was the same in England and still is - 0.66% of the population own 69% of the land in the UK. The Irish Land Commission was set by London to solve the problem. It was dissolved in 2000. There was also a famine in England and other parts of Europe at the same time as the Irish famine.

The English were responsible for keeping Scots kilt and the formation of the piped bands - they do that sort of thing.

The "No blacks, dogs or Irish" was because they were drunken yobs, no other reason. The Irish were oppressed, but no more than the Welsh, English or Scots. Maybe the English should have risen as well.
I don't look on the English as doing the Irish any favours in the past. The Irish Potato Famine was of a lot more severity than any famine in England or other parts of Europe. I think you don't really have an accurate grasp of Irish history. Do you think only the Irish had drunks? Why wasn't there notices up for No Welsh for example?

The Catholic Irish weren't allowed to own land in their own country or even fish in their own waters. I don't want to get into long winded posts but I don't really think you know the subject in any depth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_Laws_(Ireland)
EIGHT CENTURIES OF ENGLAND IN IRELAND A SYNOPSIS OF IRISH HISTORY
Percentages of land in Ireland owned by Catholics

1601 95%
1642 59%
1660 20%
1776 5%
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-25-2014, 08:49 PM
 
327 posts, read 389,807 times
Reputation: 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac15 View Post
But you are American. Not Irish.
It is hilarious that these "Irish Americans" don't even know WHERE Ireland is, let alone been there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-26-2014, 01:42 AM
 
Location: North West Northern Ireland.
20,695 posts, read 19,518,175 times
Reputation: 3107
Quote:
Originally Posted by sentry12 View Post
It is hilarious that these "Irish Americans" don't even know WHERE Ireland is, let alone been there.
Haah!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-26-2014, 01:44 AM
 
Location: North West Northern Ireland.
20,695 posts, read 19,518,175 times
Reputation: 3107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
I don't look on the English as doing the Irish any favours in the past. The Irish Potato Famine was of a lot more severity than any famine in England or other parts of Europe. I think you don't really have an accurate grasp of Irish history. Do you think only the Irish had drunks? Why wasn't there notices up for No Welsh for example?

The Catholic Irish weren't allowed to own land in their own country or even fish in their own waters. I don't want to get into long winded posts but I don't really think you know the subject in any depth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_Laws_(Ireland)
EIGHT CENTURIES OF ENGLAND IN IRELAND A SYNOPSIS OF IRISH HISTORY
Percentages of land in Ireland owned by Catholics

1601 95%
1642 59%
1660 20%
1776 5%
Have to agree. Catholics here own all the **** crappy hilltop land. Lets be honest.
In a way its quite fascinating, you can really see where the plantation has and has not occured.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top