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Old 03-15-2014, 12:27 PM
 
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Venice prepares for referendum on secession from Italy - Telegraph

Venice prepares for referendum on secession from Italy

Voting will begin on Sunday in a referendum on whether Venice and its surrounding region should secede from the rest of Italy, in a bid to restore its 1,000-year history as a sovereign republic.
"La Serenissima" or the Most Serene Republic of Venice was an independent trading power for a millennium before the last doge, or leader, was deposed by Napoleon in 1797.
The republic encompassed not just Venice but what is now the surrounding region of Veneto and it is there that the vote will take place from Sunday until Friday.
Campaigners have been inspired by the example of Scotland, which will hold its referendum on independence from the rest of the UK in September, and Catalonia, where around half the population say they want to break away from Spain.
Activists say that the latest polling shows that 65 per cent of voters in the Veneto region, which includes historic cities such as Treviso, Vicenza and Verona, are in favour of cutting ties with Rome.
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Old 03-15-2014, 03:04 PM
 
Location: SoCal
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Juicy! I will need to read more on this later.
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Old 03-16-2014, 02:05 AM
 
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I bet all of these independence referendum will fail. Scotland will not secede from the UK, and neither will Veneto. The 2010s will be remembered as the decade of the rise and fall of independence movements and the wider Libertarian movement
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Old 03-16-2014, 02:09 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong / Vienna
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The referendum is not recognised by Rome or the regional authorities, but its proponents, namely the whackos of Lega Nord, say a positive outcome could create a head of steam that would make independence inevitable Riiight...
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Old 03-16-2014, 03:18 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
I bet all of these independence referendum will fail. Scotland will not secede from the UK, and neither will Veneto. The 2010s will be remembered as the decade of the rise and fall of independence movements and the wider Libertarian movement.
Actually the movement in northern Italy has its roots in the late 1980s and it rose and reached its peak in popularity in the early 1990s when they bid for independence and tried several tax protests and self-organized referenda, and they all failed. What succeeded was the movement's leaders' ambitions for a career in politics.

Back then, Roberto Maroni, one of the few men in the movement with real balls and who later became Italy's Interior Minister, once told the people "if you refuse to pay taxes (to Rome), the tax authorities will not come, but rather Padania (independence)."

But he knew that, when it comes time to go to the mat, northern Italians are afraid of their own shadow and it became his job to police them. All too easy.

In other words, in their shortsightedness, they feel that they have too much to lose, they let themselves be bought out by Berlusconi, they got what they deserve then, and they are getting what they deserve now: loss of competitiveness in a globalized economy with by now, after two generations lost, almost no hope in sight.

In any case, kudos to the journalist at the Telegraph who at least attempts to provide a synopsis of the importance of the long-forgotten Venetian empire in eastern Mediterranean history, its final western remnant put to death, again, by continental western European powers some 217 years ago.

But it's kind of like the airplane joke.

Good Luck!

Last edited by bale002; 03-16-2014 at 03:26 AM..
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Old 03-16-2014, 03:29 AM
 
2,203 posts, read 1,125,419 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002 View Post
Actually the movement in northern Italy has its roots in the late 1980s and it rose and reached its peak in popularity in the early 1990s when they bid for independence and tried several tax protests and self-organized referenda, and they all failed. What succeeded was the movement's leaders' ambitions for a career in politics.

Back then, Roberto Maroni, one of the few men in the movement with real balls and who later became Italy's Interior Minister, once told the people "if you refuse to pay taxes (to Rome), the tax authorities will not come, but rather Padania (independence)."

But he knew that, when it comes time to go to the mat, northern Italians are afraid of their own shadow and it became his job to police them. All too easy.

In other words, in their shortsightedness, they feel that they have too much to lose, they let themselves be bought out by Berlusconi, they got what they deserve then, and they are getting what they deserve now: loss of competitiveness in a globalized economy with by now, after two generations lost, almost no hope in sight.

In any case, kudos to the journalist at the Telegraph who at least attempts to provide a synopsis of the importance of the long-forgotten Venetian empire in eastern Mediterranean history, its final western remnant put to death, again, by continental western European powers some 217 years ago.

But it's kind of like the airplane joke.

Good Luck!
The Italian economy is starting to recover so I think the steam for independence in Veneto has reduced.
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Old 03-16-2014, 03:56 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
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Originally Posted by Daywalk View Post
The Italian economy is starting to recover so I think the steam for independence in Veneto has reduced.
What, a statistical 0.1% on a quarterly basis after four years of deep recession? You are kidding, right? It's like losing one of your hands to amputation and then celebrating because the fingernail on the pinky of your other hand starts to show some white.

Try getting a business loan in Italy. US private equity firms are swooping in like vultures to buy up its bad debts for centesimi on the euro. Good luck with that.

Just the opposite: during the Berlusconi years, though no progress was made, Italy remained stable, still highly vulnerable, but stable, and he sucked up at a relatively early stage whatever real steam for independence there was, because most of it was a mirage anyway.

If there is any steam now - which I doubt, it is probably just some stinking hot air, like a last gasp before blue death after being repeatedly punched in the stomach - it is because of the recession over the past four years and the break-up of the main ruling coalition over the previous 17 years.

Four years? Four years? Really? It took them four years to figure out how to fart their breath again?

What steam, then?

In reality they are simply campaigning for the upcoming European elections and their objective is to collect whatever compensation that "job" pays, regurgitating the same tactic they tried some 20 years ago, trying to generate a little publicity. All too predictable.



“ … There are no credible alternatives to the spoils system. Even the most concentrated and authoritative power will get screwed up around the struggle for the spoils … experience shows that it is a long-term reality, except for the blind, the imbeciles, and the nave. Almost always those who make propaganda against the spoils system are nothing but aspiring dispensers of the spoils themselves. Once they gain power, they transform their efforts into the most callous struggle to get their share of the spoils too …”

Bettino Craxi, 17 February 1995



Look, this journalist at the Telegraph simply decided to write a nice little article about Venice, taking the opportunity for a cute history lesson, otherwise no one in the English-speaking world would know about this regurgitated local election campaign stunt.

Last edited by bale002; 03-16-2014 at 04:58 AM..
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Old 03-16-2014, 03:30 PM
 
Location: SoCal
5,722 posts, read 4,526,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
1. The 2010s will be remembered as the decade of the rise and fall of independence movements

2. and the wider Libertarian movement
1. I am genuinely unsure about this.

2. No. Just No.

If anything, libertarianism might actually be on the increase right now with the Edward Snowden government revelations and all.
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Old 03-16-2014, 06:58 PM
 
1,603 posts, read 1,458,919 times
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lol
Just a bunch of poor fools.
Our constitution says that Italy is one,unique and indivisible.
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:10 PM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
6,600 posts, read 10,664,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xander.XVII View Post
lol
Just a bunch of poor fools.
Our constitution says that Italy is one,unique and indivisible.
Two or three of them will get elected to the European Parliament and get paid for it with taxpayer money, and you won't, so who's the fool?

For those few, then, the charade is worth it. It has nothing to do with secession or the Constitution.
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