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Old 01-06-2018, 01:19 AM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
5,699 posts, read 4,922,938 times
Reputation: 4942

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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
Russia is a great power....sorry to wake up from your delusion...
Yes I agree, a great power is not necessarily a super power. "A great power is a nation or state that, through its great economic, political and military strength, is able to exert power and influence over not only its own region of the world, but beyond to others"

Diagram showing the great powers over time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...n_great_powers

A Regional power on the other hand is "a state that has power within a geographic region. States which wield unrivalled power and influence within a region of the world possess regional hegemony."

Diagram showing the current regional powers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_power

Last edited by grega94; 01-06-2018 at 01:30 AM..
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Old 01-06-2018, 01:29 AM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,493,078 times
Reputation: 5031
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
For starter, because these countries are lightweight on the international scene...they are not even regional powers, let alone great powers....


There are social, cultural difference, etc...
In any other part of the world Canada would have been a regional power in the same sense that Russia is now. The only reason we are less known is because we border Goliath. Canada may not be as powerful as Russia in military terms, but it has a larger economy and a higher GDP per capita.

There is also no reason big nations can't emulate success stories from smaller ones. Just look at Japan and it's completely negligible crime rate and that's a country of 127 million.
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Old 01-06-2018, 10:12 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,193 posts, read 107,823,938 times
Reputation: 116097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
In any other part of the world Canada would have been a regional power in the same sense that Russia is now. The only reason we are less known is because we border Goliath. Canada may not be as powerful as Russia in military terms, but it has a larger economy and a higher GDP per capita.

There is also no reason big nations can't emulate success stories from smaller ones. Just look at Japan and it's completely negligible crime rate and that's a country of 127 million.
So true! And btw, Russia looks to Canada as a partner in certain spheres. Canada is a far-northern country, like Russia, and has expertise to share in various aspects of living in the north. Russia also contracts with Canada for resource extraction. It's very interesting; Russia has run some of the European oil companies out of the country, but continues to maintain working relations with Canadian and US oil companies. I find that curious.
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Old 01-06-2018, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,797,212 times
Reputation: 11103
Russia is indeed a great power, no doubt about that. But Russians have to realise that they are not anymore the superpower they were during the Cold War. And that time is not gonna return either. In all other aspects than military, Russia isn't globally even a match for Italy.

The problem with Russia is that it lacks vision. How many Russian politicians ask themselves "where will we be in 25 years"? Probably not many. Instead they think how they can make money from corruption today.

I said 10 years ago that Russia must recreate and diversify its economy, because the 3rd world rare materials economy isn't gonna work forever. 10 years later they have made NOTHING. 10 years from now the collapse is imminent, because oil and gas goes out of fashion soon.

The second problem is that nobody in Russia gives a damn. But it's not because it's in their culture, it's because the task is overwhelming. As I said about the Russian motorists in Finland; they drive nicely here, but go completely berserk when they cross the border. That's because they know Finnish drivers give a damn, so thus they do to, as you're supposed to. Back home they don't give a damn, as nobody else does it either, and it's just a neverending evil circle.

Good luck!
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:58 PM
 
26,777 posts, read 22,529,485 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
For starter, because these countries are lightweight on the international scene...they are not even regional powers, let alone great powers....


There are social, cultural difference, etc...
Yes, BUT;
From what you are saying here,

Quote:
"I do not think anybody thinks of Russia as a "model"......great powers rarely are......furthermore, as politically incorrect as it may sound, you cannot apply the same "model" of governance and institutions to every country.....Russia modeled after Sweden or Canada would not work."
it won't work in what sense exactly?

I do not get into all the details what parties represent whom and how many in these two countries ( because every country has its own parties depending on the historical background/cultural specifics and what's not.) So this is not important; I am following the bottom line, and this is what I see;
As the end result of it, I see one major difference between the US and European countries/Canada.
The US economy targets predominantly the financial interests of the ruling class AND accumulation of the capital, as the end result of all its policies. Why? Because the accumulated capital facilitates the investments all over the globe, and thus provides the global takeover by the US as the end result.
Now European countries/Canada are concentrated more on the "national interests" - i.e. the well-being of their nations as a whole - not just ruling class, and are not concerned with the global takeover.
Now where does Russia fit in this scheme of things?
Once the oligarchic system, with accumulation of all the capital in few hands has been sold to Russian government as the "most successful model" by American economists ( "the free market" will solve the rest of problems" sorta,) some idiots supporting yet another idiot - Medvedev,) are saying that Russia basically is bound to beat America (or the whole Western world - god knows,) by this very weapon - the financial means, and Moscow is going to be the new banking capital of the world.
Right.
Since this is obvious nonsense and the wet dreams of putinbots, let's look at situation realistically. Does Russia need the global takeover? No. Does it need to take care of a well-being of a nation as a whole?
Yes.
So there you go - Swedish or Canadian version is what Russia needs, not the version that benefits exclusively her ruling class most and foremost.
In fact the latter version only leads us to the WWIII, slowly but surely.
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Old 01-06-2018, 04:25 PM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,298,594 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
In any other part of the world Canada would have been a regional power in the same sense that Russia is now.

Not even close........definitely the geographic position of Canada prevent to be even a regional power with any sort of sphere of influence....Australia, for example, is more of a regional power compared to Canada (even if is perceived as the US deputy sheriff in the Pacific)

Quote:
Canada may not be as powerful as Russia in military terms, but it has a larger economy and a higher GDP per capita.
The GDP per capita figure (especially nominal) has very little relevance in the power status of a nation....Luxemburg is #1, and China is below Canada....
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Old 01-06-2018, 04:37 PM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,298,594 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Russia is indeed a great power, no doubt about that. But Russians have to realise that they are not anymore the superpower they were during the Cold War. And that time is not gonna return either.
They working hard at trying to climb back...the successful Syrian intervention I believe was a watershed moment.

Quote:
In all other aspects than military, Russia isn't globally even a match for Italy.
Not true...Russia has definitely some aces up their sleeves other than military technology, which, by the way, create a lot of spillover effects in other industries (US docet)

Quote:
The problem with Russia is that it lacks vision. How many Russian politicians ask themselves "where will we be in 25 years"? Probably not many. Instead they think how they can make money from corruption today.
Somewhat true....probably for all of his faults, Putin is the best thing they have when it come to long term strategic thinking.......he seems laser focused on economic diversification and he is working hard at the strategic partnership with China which could be a real game changer in the balance of power . The problem is who will come after him, if he has been successful in shaping the political and institutional framework of Russia to prevent the return of the 1990s. Time will tell.

Quote:
I said 10 years ago that Russia must recreate and diversify its economy, because the 3rd world rare materials economy isn't gonna work forever. 10 years later they have made NOTHING. 10 years from now the collapse is imminent, because oil and gas goes out of fashion soon.
Nothing?? You haven't paid attention.....food and agriculture exports have overtaken military equipment and the reliance of energy and natural resources is steadily decreasing.....you may consider them propaganda (and a lot of the time they are) but I watch a lot of Russian media and, propaganda or not, the economy is evolving and diversifying.
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Old 01-06-2018, 08:32 PM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,493,078 times
Reputation: 5031
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Yes, BUT;
From what you are saying here,



it won't work in what sense exactly?

I do not get into all the details what parties represent whom and how many in these two countries ( because every country has its own parties depending on the historical background/cultural specifics and what's not.) So this is not important; I am following the bottom line, and this is what I see;
As the end result of it, I see one major difference between the US and European countries/Canada.
The US economy targets predominantly the financial interests of the ruling class AND accumulation of the capital, as the end result of all its policies. Why? Because the accumulated capital facilitates the investments all over the globe, and thus provides the global takeover by the US as the end result.
Now European countries/Canada are concentrated more on the "national interests" - i.e. the well-being of their nations as a whole - not just ruling class, and are not concerned with the global takeover.
Now where does Russia fit in this scheme of things?
Once the oligarchic system, with accumulation of all the capital in few hands has been sold to Russian government as the "most successful model" by American economists ( "the free market" will solve the rest of problems" sorta,) some idiots supporting yet another idiot - Medvedev,) are saying that Russia basically is bound to beat America (or the whole Western world - god knows,) by this very weapon - the financial means, and Moscow is going to be the new banking capital of the world.
Right.
Since this is obvious nonsense and the wet dreams of putinbots, let's look at situation realistically. Does Russia need the global takeover? No. Does it need to take care of a well-being of a nation as a whole?
Yes.
So there you go - Swedish or Canadian version is what Russia needs, not the version that benefits exclusively her ruling class most and foremost.
In fact the latter version only leads us to the WWIII, slowly but surely.
Since I'm the one who brought Canada into the discussion, I'll provide an answer.

Let's get one thing out of the way first. Canada doesn't come close to matching Sweden or most other Western European countries when it comes to social services. It beats the US at healthcare simply by virtue of actually having a national system in place.

What Canada excels at is tolerance. Its the most liberal Anglo country out there and avoids many of the pitfalls of the other ones. It lacks the institutionalized racial segregation that still plagues the US, and to a certain extent the UK. It's more progressive than either the US, UK or Australia. I excluded New Zealand as I'm not too familiar with the situation over there.

It's economic model is quite similar to the US's with an emphasis on free enterprise, but with higher taxes. By extension, the gap in wealth isn't as dramatic as in the States, but is still noticeable.

You also get humble, if somewhat too PC, Trudeau as prime minister instead of chest thumping clowns like Putin or Trump.

Saturno, on the other hand, left Canada for the US so he'll have a different story to tell.
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Old 01-07-2018, 02:14 AM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,298,594 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post

Saturno, on the other hand, left Canada for the US so he'll have a different story to tell.
I agree on many of the things you said overall however:


1) There is no "institutionalized" racism in the US.

2) Justin Trudeau is a clown himself
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Old 01-07-2018, 07:57 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
9,357 posts, read 14,301,405 times
Reputation: 10080
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post


1) There is no "institutionalized" racism in the US.)
Yes, there is. Just look at the census questions, among many other official documents at all levels of government that citizens are required by penalty of law to fill out. And it's deeply embedded in other rules, regulations and public policies as well.
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