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Old 04-03-2014, 05:05 AM
 
Location: London
4,709 posts, read 5,060,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
In the 90s you plundered and destroyed Russian industry with corrupt politicians.
Those corrupt politicians were Russian. A few Russians at the top plundered Russia - the Oligarchs. They divided the country up amongst themselves.

Gorbachev envisioned Russian land remaining in public hands as part of Glasnost. After a threatened military coup forced him to step down, Englishman Fred Harrison went to Russia trying to persuade Yeltsin to adopt Land Valuation Taxation. Instead, Russia’s first president opened the country to the IMF and western rent-seekers (freeloaders). Both sucked out sufficient wealth to set the country’s standard of living back several decades.

Fred Harrison took the opportunity to work with the Russian government in developing economic policy. He spent 10 years in Russia advising their Federal Parliament (Duma) and local authorities on property tax reform and establishment of land markets. He conducted long-range economic studies, attempting to steer economic policy towards investment in schools, science and healthcare. He was the organizer of the Duma's Land Policy Congress and conducted several hearings and studies commissioned by a wide range of Russian authorities. In 2002 he ended his work in Russia when it became apparent that the trend of investment from resource rents was not into the ventures he had recommended but instead into what he termed conspicuous consumption, such as buying western real estate and football clubs. The wealth of Russia was not being used to invest in Russia. It was being used line the pockets of the few who bought western extravagances. From being in the ideal situation with all land owned by the state and using the resource rents to fund the state, not using income and sales taxes promoting enterprise and production, Russia failed its people miserably.
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:26 AM
 
26,778 posts, read 22,521,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
Those corrupt politicians were Russian. A few Russians at the top plundered Russia - the Oligarchs. They divided the country up amongst themselves.
These corrupt Russian officials were hand-picked by American economic advisers and IMF; what these economic advisers were implementing in Russia ( while sitting side by side with those corrupt politicians) has been signed as a law by Yeltsin's presidential decrees.

Quote:
Gorbachev envisioned Russian land remaining in public hands as part of Glasnost.
And that's how it should have been, because culturally Russia is a different country comparably to England, so what worked for England wouldn't work for Russia, unless that would have served the destruction of quint-essence of Russian culture and Russian train of thought.

Quote:
After a threatened military coup forced him to step down, Englishman Fred Harrison went to Russia trying to persuade Yeltsin to adopt Land Valuation Taxation. Instead, Russia’s first president opened the country to the IMF and western rent-seekers (freeloaders). Both sucked out sufficient wealth to set the country’s standard of living back several decades.

Fred Harrison took the opportunity to work with the Russian government in developing economic policy. He spent 10years in Russia advising their Federal Parliament (Duma) and local authorities on property tax reform and establishment of land markets. He conducted long-range economic studies, attempting to steer economic policy towards investment in schools, science and healthcare. He was the organizer of the Duma's Land Policy Congress and conducted several hearings and studies commissioned by a wide range of Russian authorities. In 2002 he ended his work in Russia when it became apparent that the trend of investment from resource rents was not into the ventures he had recommended but instead into what he termed conspicuous consumption, such as buying western real estate and football clubs.
That was already all irrelevant, because the fate of Russian economy ( and fate of Russia in general ) has been determined in Washington by major bankers.

Quote:
The wealth of Russia was not being used to invest in Russia.
Of course not. It has been primarily used to beef up Western economy and to serve Western interests, but Russians already know that by now.
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:40 AM
 
Location: London
4,709 posts, read 5,060,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
And that's how it should have been, because culturally Russia is a different country comparably to England, so what worked for England wouldn't work for Russia,
You missed it. Reclaiming the wealth of the resources of land to pay for pubic services works for any country in the world. Russia was in an ideal position to implement such measures painless and seamlessly. The key to the prime success of enterprise Hong Kong is the low income and corporations taxes because all land is owned by the state and leased out. They built a new metro network by using the resources gained from the land. Russia could have been the world's richest nation with a standard of living unsurpassed if they did it right from the outset.

Greed took over.

Last edited by John-UK; 04-03-2014 at 10:48 AM..
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:56 AM
 
26,778 posts, read 22,521,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
You missed it. Reclaiming the wealth of the resources of land to pay for pubic services works for any country in the world. Russia was in an ideal position to implement such measures painless and seamlessly. The key to the prime success of enterprise Hong Kong is the low income and corporations taxes because all land is owned by the state and leased out. They built a new metro network by using the resources gained from the land. Russia could have been the world's richest nation with a standard of living unsurpassed if they did it right from the outset.
The former colony of British Empire and Russia are not one and the same thing.

Quote:
Greed took over.
Yes, American greed well-serviced by Russian crooks in power.
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:43 AM
 
Location: London
4,709 posts, read 5,060,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
The former colony of British Empire and Russia are not one and the same thing.
You still missed it. The British Empire, apart from a few bits, did not reclaim commonly created wealth that soaked into the land crystalizing as land values. This has nothing to do with culture. being a colony, etc. Russia, and all the other ex communist counties, had the ideal opportunity to implement the fairest and most progressive system in the world, but greed got the better of a few.
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Old 04-03-2014, 12:39 PM
 
Location: New York City
4,035 posts, read 10,292,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
John Perkins ... Lyndon LaRouche
Russia has enough problems. No need to bring in wacko American conspiracy theorists.
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:07 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
24,095 posts, read 32,437,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmel View Post
I was in elementary school in USSR in the 80's and I was afraid of the US the same way.
On the first day of school, 1 September, we used to have so-called "peace lessons", where teachers frightened us by evil America which wants to start a nuclear war.
Being a kid at that time, I was really afraid of Reagan. In my mind, he was someone like Hitler. And it was already when perestroika began...

It's funny. Since I have met people from the former USSR, and become friends with them, I have heard this too. We were afraid of each other! I've also had quite a few laughs (over vodka) about our misconceptions of one another, and the propaganda that we were fed and the fear that it engendered.

By the time Reagan was president, I know longer believed it all. I was in my early 20s and I thought Reagan was a terrible president. I can think of several countries Reagan invaded.

Also, calling Russia an "evil empire" was uncalled for and typical of Reagan's hardline agenda, even as perestroika bloomed, Old Ron was trying to re-start the cold war.

Many Americans - although not quite enough, saw through Reagan.

(PS In my first post I failed to say that I had also had a wonderful time in Kiev)

Last edited by sheena12; 04-03-2014 at 01:22 PM..
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Old 04-03-2014, 02:11 PM
 
Location: London
4,709 posts, read 5,060,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpk-nyc View Post
Russia has enough problems. No need to bring in wacko American conspiracy theorists.
You must vote Republican.
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:46 PM
 
26,778 posts, read 22,521,872 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
You still missed it. The British Empire, apart from a few bits, did not reclaim commonly created wealth that soaked into the land crystalizing as land values. This has nothing to do with culture. being a colony, etc. Russia, and all the other ex communist counties, had the ideal opportunity to implement the fairest and most progressive system in the world, but greed got the better of a few.
OK, let's see what I am missing here;

"A land value tax (or site valuation tax) is a levy on the unimproved value of land only. It is an ad valorem tax on land that disregards the value of buildings, personal property and other improvements. A land value tax (LVT) is different from other property taxes, which are taxes on the whole value of real estate: the combination of land, buildings, and improvements to the site.
Although the economic efficiency of a land value tax has been established knowledge since Adam Smith,[1] it was perhaps most famously promoted by Henry George. In his best selling work Progress and Poverty (1879), George argued that when the site or location value of land was improved by public works, its economic rent was the most logical source of public revenue.[2] A land value tax is also a progressive tax, in that it would be paid primarily by the wealthy, and would reduce economic inequality.[3] The philosophy that land rents extracted from nature should be captured by society and used to replace taxes is often now known as Georgism."


Land value tax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So what "land markets," what "land value tax," and what "the fairest and most progressive system in the world" are we talking about, when land in Soviet times belonged to the state and was not in private property of anyone? Who were supposed to become the new owners of this mentioned above public lands under the proposed ( by Fred Harrison) Land Valuation Taxation?
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:48 PM
 
26,778 posts, read 22,521,872 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpk-nyc View Post
Russia has enough problems. No need to bring in wacko American conspiracy theorists.
What John Perkins is talking about is not "conspiracy theory," but hard cold truth. And what took place in Russia in the 90ies proved it.
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