Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
A massive process of "Germanization/Germanisation" took place, most likely many names were Germanized as well. Their language was in due process Germanized by Teutonic but in other places Slavicized. Prussians were in someway "racially"mistreated by the Low Germans and Dutch colonists who settled there and had the best arable lands. There were small scale genocides in the middle of the 13th century, a revolt cost them a decline in population from about 170,000 before the conquest to about 90,000 in 1255. These Germanic settlers built new cities as well, while the pagan indigenous Prussians were seen as a backward people living primitively.
So there's no way to recover the Prussian surnames? Because it all took place too long ago?
The language was outlawed in both Germany and Poland, I know that much. But it survived in Poland until around 1850, more or less, since there was no genocide on the Polish side (I gather).
Recently I read that Lithuania continued its pagan ways, even after the Prussian invasion, genocide, and conversion to Christianity. Why was Prussia targeted via a Papal Bull and the Teutonic Order, but Lithuania wasn't?
I doubt that Prussians lived more "primitively" than rural Germans of that time. Probably the prejudice existed due to the paganism, so everything was viewed through that lens.
So there's no way to recover the Prussian surnames? Because it all took place too long ago?
The language was outlawed in both Germany and Poland, I know that much. But it survived in Poland until around 1850, more or less, since there was no genocide on the Polish side (I gather).
Recently I read that Lithuania continued its pagan ways, even after the Prussian invasion, genocide, and conversion to Christianity. Why was Prussia targeted via a Papal Bull and the Teutonic Order, but Lithuania wasn't?
I doubt that Prussians lived more "primitively" than rural Germans of that time. Probably the prejudice existed due to the paganism, so everything was viewed through that lens.
They were "primitive" in our western context. With Christianity in Europe, came also civilization, literature, Christian manners and customs etc... Germanic tribes such as the Norse were seen as a bunch "dumb blond savages" in the eyes of the Chritianized Anglo-Saxons for example, or Chritianized Franks. However Vikings had mastered a seafaring technology which later brought all the way to some parts of North America.
They were "primitive" in our western context. With Christianity in Europe, came also civilization, literature, Christian manners and customs etc... Germanic tribes such as the Norse were seen as a bunch "dumb blond savages" in the eyes of the Chritianized Anglo-Saxons for example, or Chritianized Franks.
Interesting definition of "civilization". So, the witch-burnings, the Inquisition, the torture devices, this was part of Christian "civilization"? I can see why Lithuania (and Prussia) clung to its paganism.
To the contrary, with Christianity came darkness in many ways, which is why we needed the enlightenment afterwards to get rid of that again.
Declaring another people primitive has been a way to treat enemies for a long time, in order to make them appear less human and thus to justify wars against them. Was the same thing as with the Romans' treatment of the Germanic people, to name just one example.
Fact is, up until not long ago the vast majority of the population anywhere was uneducated, "high civilization" was the privilege of the tiny elite. It was the way with the Egyptians, the Indians, the Chinese, the Romans, the Germanic people, etc.
Isolation over many hundreds of years will produce distinctive looks among individuals of similar genetic stock. There is a German look that looks a little different from a Dutch look, an English look, a Norwegian look etc. But there also looks that you might be hard pressed to see distinctly in all of these countries. The "dark" types that everyone likes to make light of in Britain are also common in other countries of the NW. When people want evidence for an Anglo-Saxon Britain, they demand a country full of blond Uber-Nordics, because it's their impression of the Germanic invaders. But a type which was known as a Keltic Nordic is just as important in the Netherlands as it is in Britain, which is a basic standard NW type.
The Keltic Nordic type which is according to some anthropologists, the most common Caucasoid type in N.W. Europe including the British Isles is not primarily a "dark" type. It is a variable type in terms of hair color which could range anywhere from platinum-blonde to very dark brown though it is less blonde than the Scandinavian Nordic type, the Keltic has a good frequency of red hair is too. Eye colour is predominantly light and skin tone very light. It is still an essentially Nordic type. British, Irish, Belgians, Dutch people are usually of this Nordic type.
In European countries, particularly Ireland, Great Britain, Scandinavia, Baltic states, also northern regions of Germany and France lying at a higher latitude due to the lack of enough U.V.B., lighter skin became beneficiary combined in some areas especially cloudy have the higher frequencies of red and brown-haired, freckled folk, while in other areas of the north less cloudy an rainy we have higher frquencies of blonde-headed people. Scandinavia and the Baltic States where the highest frequencies of blonde hair are found, while in Ireland, especially western Britain there is a higher frequencies of red-headed and brown-haired, freckled. While the rest of Northern Europe are in between those two extremes. [/quote]
Interesting definition of "civilization". So, the witch-burnings, the Inquisition, the torture devices, this was part of Christian "civilization"? I can see why Lithuania (and Prussia) clung to its paganism.
Yes you may call "civilization" due to the fact when the Church controlled European politics, anyone who was not a Christian was considered a "Barbarian/savage" and were then without mercy or rights. So the witch-burnings, Inquisition, persecution, etc... were permitted against those who were outside the "circle".
Nevertheless European civilization after the Roman decline came from and with the church. A great part of the intellectuals or highly educated people in those days were monks, clergymen, etc... Look at the architectural feats of the Sistine Chapel, Notre Dame de Paris, etc... while those who were not under the Church umbrella lived simple lives of fishermen, hunters, etc...
One of our greatest of our era is Newton, who was an English Clergyman.
Europeans continued the same behaviour towards people outside of Europe, calling them "Barbarians" such as the Africans, Asians, indigenous people of the America were treated mercilessly by Europeans when they first met them. Africans were not even considered humans at one point by Europeans. [/quote]
In European countries, particularly Ireland, Great Britain, Scandinavia, Baltic states, also northern regions of Germany and France lying at a higher latitude due to the lack of enough U.V.B., lighter skin became beneficiary combined in some areas especially cloudy have the higher frequencies of red and brown-haired, freckled folk, while in other areas of the north less cloudy an rainy we have higher frquencies of blonde-headed people. Scandinavia and the Baltic States where the highest frequencies of blonde hair are found, while in Ireland, especially western Britain there is a higher frequencies of red-headed and brown-haired, freckled. While the rest of Northern Europe are in between those two extremes.
[/quote]
Some random thoughts on this thread:
You make an apt point mentioned by others who have noted the variation in exterior physical features based upon prevalent environmental conditions (R Buckminster Fuller comes to mind). After enough time the human specie will adapt best to their environment as will virtually all surviving species.
I believe a few prior posters already posted the highest 'blonde' percentage data by country. Interestingly, many children start out blonde and then gradually become darker haired. One of my siblings and myself as children were blonde as infants and eventually it turned sandy brown in early childhood years to eventually dark brown with a bit of red and occasionally blonde hair mix. We are both green eyed as well as another sibling who had lighter brown hair with a little bit higher percent of reddish hues.
Nicest eyes I ever saw were on a woman of Swedish and Czech ethnicity, warm cool endless blue. Another interesting point that can often be misinterpreted is the use of colors to denote direction. The nomads of the euro Asiatic steppes used the following: White = West; Red = South; Black = North; Green = East
Following migrations is fascinating, as I have eastern European background and my fathers side is from an area if you go back far enough was considered white Croatia and my mother from red Croatia, but if you go further back based on grammatical linguistic influence they both originated from ancient Persia - modern Iran. And I'm sure if you go back further you'll be in Africa! So can I call myself an African American?
On side note your avatar made me think of this song :
You are right. The only reason why people are obssesed about dark-haired Brits, is because we are exposed by the media to more British and Irish people, white Americans than anyone else. There are darker-haired people in other Northern European population as well. In the Netherlands, not just Famke(I like her though), but also football players like
Johan Cruyff
Jan Poortvliet
Marc Overmars
Philip Cocu
Mark van Bommel
Faas Wilkes
This is very true, and something I've also brought up. In the English speaking world, we are FAR more familiar with people from the British Isles in detailed observation, without even necessarily visiting the UK or Ireland. Hollywood is full of actors from the British Isles with many A-listers in the most popular films and TV. British made films are easily understood (usually!) and widely seen in North America, Australia, and around the world where English is understood. It's very rare for a non British European films to be popular among large audiences. They are foreign language films. Harry Potter and James Bond films are not foreign language films. German films such as Das Boot or Run Lola Run are once in a while sub-titled hit films in North America, and viewing them can add actual value over Hollywood portrayals of Germans in film. But interestingly American and British WW2 films often portray the Germans as both blond and Brunette.
Maxmillian Schell http://taka-faust.c.blog.so-net.ne.j...85dc1.jpg?c=a1
But the blond haired blue eyed Aryan Nordic race propaganda was a prominent component of the Nazi regime, so outside Germany there's a default presumption that most are of that type. The Scandinavians never had these racially superior idealism about their people, and never thought there was anything special along those lines. Possibly the origins were with the English, in promoting an affinity to their Germanic Anglo-Saxon lineage, they believed themselves both different and superior to the Celtic Irish and Welsh. These feelings of commonality with Germany of course ran sour at the break of WW1, and any blood ties with their enemy would be celebrated less freely and greatly obscured.
These are good examples of darker Dutch individuals that aren't hard to find. Many think of the Netherlands as more similar to Scandinavia, but they are really more similar to Germans and British. This isn't just genetically, but phenotypically the predominance of the light eye and skin pigmented brown haired NW type is most common. This is as opposed to a true Skando type like Peter Forsberg who has brown hair but Scandinavian look http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/file.../01/foppa2.jpg
The funny double standard is if certain people were to see your Dutch examples with the understanding they were British, they would hastily label them inferior Brythonic chumps. If they were told they were Dutch, then they would see the Germanic facial features that would distinguish them across that racial divide.
what is this fascination some people have with blonde hair?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
: