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Old 01-22-2015, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
So, does this give Russia the right to now redraw the map?
What do you mean by redraw the map? Transnistrian government rejected Russian 2006 proposal to join Moldova, because they thought the agreement gave too much political power to the Moldovan side. Transnistria was a part of Moldavian ASSR within Ukraine, not to be confused with Moldavian SSR, these are 2 separate entities. Transnistria is basically a chunk of Odessa Oblast that ended up on the other side of the border when USSR disintegrated. It has nothnig to do with historical Bessarabia or Moldova. Transnistria declared independence in the 1990s just like other SSRs within USSR.

Last edited by Gantz; 01-22-2015 at 07:42 PM..
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Gantz View Post
What do you mean by redraw the map? Transnistria was a part of Moldavian ASSR within Ukraine, not to be confused with Moldavian SSR, these are 2 separate entities. Transnistria is basically a chunk of Odessa Oblast that ended up on the other side of the border when USSR disintegrated. Transnistria declared independence in the 1990s just like other SSRs within USSR.
Ah... thank you, that explained to me quite a bit right there.
As Odessa was really never a Ukrainian city ( and never will be,) if those are the near-by areas, now I understand why they resist any "assimilation" with Moldavia\Romania - whatever.
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Ah... thank you, that explained to me quite a bit right there.
As Odessa was really never a Ukrainian city ( and never will be,) if those are the near-by areas, now I understand why they resist any "assimilation" with Moldavia\Romania - whatever.
Yes, if not for Stalin's weird machinations, it would still be part of Odessa Oblast today and Bugaec would be part of Moldova instead of being part of Odessa Oblast. Transnistria was never a part of historic Moldova, Bessarabia, or Romania (except for a brief Nazi occupation in 41-44). Transnistria became a part of the Russian Empire after the Second partition of Poland in 1793 between Russia and Prussia.

Last edited by Gantz; 01-22-2015 at 07:56 PM..
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:56 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,059 posts, read 106,854,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gantz View Post
What do you mean by redraw the map? Transnistrian government rejected Russian 2006 proposal to join Moldova, because they thought the agreement gave too much political power to the Moldovan side. Transnistria was a part of Moldavian ASSR within Ukraine, not to be confused with Moldavian SSR, these are 2 separate entities. Transnistria is basically a chunk of Odessa Oblast that ended up on the other side of the border when USSR disintegrated. It has nothnig to do with historical Bessarabia or Moldova. Transnistria declared independence in the 1990s just like other SSRs within USSR.
Transnistria was tranferred to Moldova by the Supreme Soviet after WWII. From Wiki:


The Moldavian SSR, which was set up by a decision of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR on 2 August 1940, was formed from a part of Bessarabia taken from Romania on June 28, following the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, where the majority of the population were Romanian speakers, and a strip of land on the left bank of the Dniester in the Ukrainian SSR, which was transferred to it in 1940 (the strip being roughly equivalent to the territory of today's Transnistria).


Russia redrew the map in 1940, and now they want to redraw it again? Why can't they make up their minds? It's too late now. They lost their chance, back when it was part of the Soviet Union.

You snooze, you lose.
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:58 PM
 
10,275 posts, read 10,237,717 times
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Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post

Russia redrew the map in 1940, and now they want to redraw it again? Why can't they make up their minds? It's too late now. They lost their chance, back when it was part of the Soviet Union.

You snooze, you lose.
Russia will always use the excuse "but we have Russians living there" to invade other countries. Of course, they don't want other countries doing the same to Russia (they label that "terrorism", see Chechnya).
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Old 01-22-2015, 08:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Transnistria was tranferred to Moldova by the Supreme Soviet after WWII. From Wiki:


The Moldavian SSR, which was set up by a decision of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR on 2 August 1940, was formed from a part of Bessarabia taken from Romania on June 28, following the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, where the majority of the population were Romanian speakers, and a strip of land on the left bank of the Dniester in the Ukrainian SSR, which was transferred to it in 1940 (the strip being roughly equivalent to the territory of today's Transnistria).


Russia redrew the map in 1940, and now they want to redraw it again? Why can't they make up their minds? It's too late now. They lost their chance, back when it was part of the Soviet Union.

You snooze, you lose.
That's what everyone was thinking in Crimea's case, no?
I can only assume that Russains ( in the government) are redrawing the borders following strategic considerations, and it's not like geopolitics don't change with time.
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Old 01-22-2015, 08:17 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Originally Posted by erasure View Post
That's what everyone was thinking in Crimea's case, no?
I can only assume that Russains ( in the government) are redrawing the borders following strategic considerations, and it's not like geopolitics don't change with time.
According to some information, there's a huge arms cache in Transnistria that the USSR was stockpiling in the event of a major war with the West. So maybe that's one thing motivating them, like the military port in Crimea. But still, that's not enough reason to just invade a country and take what you want, or to encourage separatism so you can have an excuse to get what you want.

Why did they even bother transferring that territory from Ukraine to Moldova in the first place? If they hadn't done that, it wouldn't be an issue now. It's like they're saying, 'OOPS! We goofed back in 1940, so if you don't mind (or even if you do), we want to fix this little error here. Not a big deal, just erasing a little bit on the map.... Don't pay any attention, not a big deal. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along..."

Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 01-22-2015 at 08:29 PM..
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Old 01-22-2015, 08:29 PM
 
26,750 posts, read 22,239,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
According to some information, there's a huge arms cache in Transnistria that the USSR was stockpiling in the event of a major war with the West. So maybe that's one thing motivating them, like the military port in Crimea. But still, that's not enough reason to just invade a country and take what you want, or to encourage separatism so you can have an excuse to get what you want.

Why did they even bother transferring that territory from Ukraine to Moldova in the first place? If they hadn't done that, it wouldn't be an issue now. It's like they're saying, 'OOPS! We goofed back in 1940, so if you don't mind (or even if you do), we want to fix this little error here. Not a big deal, just erasing a little bit on the map.... Don't pay any attention, not a big deal..."
Same thing with Crimea - why did Khrushev transferred Crimea to Ukraine back in...1953(?)
Doesn't look like it made any sense ( now,) from strategic point of view, but actually there were purely practical reasons, ( in terms of economy) back in that time.
So I'm pretty sure there were reasons why the territory has been transferred from Ukraine to Moldova back in that specific time. We simply don't know them, but that doesn't mean that they didn't exist.
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Old 01-22-2015, 09:10 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,059 posts, read 106,854,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Same thing with Crimea - why did Khrushev transferred Crimea to Ukraine back in...1953(?)
Doesn't look like it made any sense ( now,) from strategic point of view, but actually there were purely practical reasons, ( in terms of economy) back in that time.
So I'm pretty sure there were reasons why the territory has been transferred from Ukraine to Moldova back in that specific time. We simply don't know them, but that doesn't mean that they didn't exist.
OK, fine, but that doesn't mean they can just change their minds and decide they want the territory back, and take it by force if the people they gave it to got kind of attached to it.
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Old 01-22-2015, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
OK, fine, but that doesn't mean they can just change their minds and decide they want the territory back, and take it by force if the people they gave it to got kind of attached to it.
The thing is, in Transnistria both the people and their government WANT to be part of Russia, its the Russians that don't want it as part of their territory. Back in 2006 Russian gov't proposed reuniting Transnistria and Moldova, but the Transnistrian side refused, for obvious reasons too. They are not historically tied to that region and are more similar to the people of the neighboring Odessa Oblast... because that's pretty much what they are. Its just during the late 1980s -1990s all of the sudden they got on the wrong side of the border lumped with Moldova, and they immidiately declared independence from Moldova in 1990.

The calculus for Stalin to joining that region to Moldova was that he wanted to incorporate the Romanian Bessarabia into USSR. Nowadays Russia obviously has no territorial claims to Bessarabia/Moldova proper. Bugeac is the only region that was historically part of Moldova/Bessarabia, but it doesn't belong to Russia. It is a part of Ukraine nowadays.

Last edited by Gantz; 01-22-2015 at 09:32 PM..
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