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Old 02-13-2015, 02:41 AM
 
Location: London
4,709 posts, read 5,062,698 times
Reputation: 2154

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Looking at the map, drawing an east to west line through the middle of Europe puts all these countries 100% in the north:
  1. Iceland
  2. Norway
  3. Denmark
  4. Sweden
  5. Finland
  6. Estonia
  7. Latvia
  8. Lithuania
  9. UK
  10. Ireland
  11. Holland
  12. Belgium
  13. Luxembourg
  14. Belarus
Countries which are partially in the north:
  1. Russia
  2. Germany
  3. Poland (most of Poland)
  4. Ukraine
  5. Czech Republic
  6. France (very small part of France)
The rest are 100% in the south.

Last edited by John-UK; 02-13-2015 at 03:05 AM..
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Old 02-13-2015, 03:00 AM
 
Location: London
4,709 posts, read 5,062,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
For me the UK has always been Western Europe, not Northern.
Draw an east-west line through the middle of Europe splitting it north and south.
Draw a north-south line through the centre Europe splitting it west and east.

The UK is clearly 100% in the north. The UK is clearly 100% in the west. Now our two lines give us four boxes in Europe: North West, North East, South West, South East.
The UK is 100% in the North West. Finland is 100% North East. Spain is 100% South West. Greece is 100% South East.

This is geographically, not Cold War Separations or any other made up notions.

Last edited by John-UK; 02-13-2015 at 03:15 AM..
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Old 02-13-2015, 03:27 AM
 
Location: London
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miserere View Post
Because they lost, Germans lost, Italians lost, French (Vichy) lost, etc, etc, Spain won. Spain kicked Stalin, Americans did not invade, Hitler did not invade, in fact he was an ally.

If allies would have invaded, or Hitler,-to take Gibraltar, the allies would have set the same franchise that they set up in France, Italy and Germany.
Spain won nothing. Spain stayed out of WW2 because Franco believed the Germans would lose and he told Hitler so. Franco feared all the Spanish islands and large parts of Spain being occupied by the British and Spain turned into a battle ground. Spain was in no fit state to fight a war.

Spanish troops never went to Russia. The 'Division Azul' was a volunteer force - Spanish volunteers into the German army. Franco told them to go back to Spain in Spring of 1943 when it was abundantly clear the Germans would lose. Many Spanish men joined the British and Free French. The first "French" troops into Paris were Spanish.

There was a plan to occupy Spain in 1945 and get rid of Fascism for good. Attention turned to the USSR, so Spain was spared occupation by British and American forces. It was a mistake. They should have got rid of Franco and introduced democracy to the Spanish people.

Last edited by John-UK; 02-13-2015 at 03:37 AM..
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Old 02-13-2015, 03:49 AM
 
Location: London
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Yes. Finland sent troops to the 5. SS Panzer-division 'Wiking' and a separate battalion To 'Nordost'
Finnish Volunteer Battalion of the Waffen-SS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These were though less than the 'Division Azul', which was a whole division.

Many Finns fought in the International Brigade in the Spanish Civil War too.
The USSR fought on Finnish soil and permanently took Finnish territory. The Finns were not allied to Germany but fought alongside them. Mannerheim (who couldn't speak Finnish) was the only non-German to know of the attack on the USSR in advance. Finns fought Soviet and German troops on Finnish soil. Germany troops were in Finland fighting the Soviets. When Finland made peace with the USSR and the UK they were told to get the Germans out of Finland so they turned on the Germans. The Finns never made peace with the USA as they the USA never declared war on them. It was an out of the way country and not worth deploying men and materials to fight them as the Soviets would take care of them.

Last edited by John-UK; 02-13-2015 at 04:10 AM..
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Old 02-13-2015, 03:50 AM
 
Location: Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
Mannerheim (who couldn't speak Finnish)
He could.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTuTDRfdqZk
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Old 02-13-2015, 04:03 AM
 
Location: London
4,709 posts, read 5,062,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Finlandization was justified in the 50's and 60's when there was actually a real threat of a Soviet invasion, but it continued in the 70's and 80's, which was totally unnecessary. It ended when the Berlin wall fell, but completely we will be rid of it only when the last of these politicians born in the 40's and 50's die. Sadly.

Nowadays it's a huge insult to say that a politican is finlandized, even if it would be true.
Finlandization was necessary as Finland would become a part of Russia again. Finland had to dance to the Russian tune. The only other way was to join NATO and allow British, French and US troops in Finland. That would have to be done initially in secret as the Soviets would roll over the border if they knew Finland was to join NATO. Finland was a defacto buffer country. Finlandization could be tolerated by the USSR as Finland was split from the rest of eastern Europe by the Baltic Sea.
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Old 02-13-2015, 04:09 AM
 
Location: London
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
He could.
He needed an interpreter.
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Old 02-13-2015, 06:22 AM
 
1,470 posts, read 2,078,581 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
Spain won nothing. Spain stayed out of WW2 because Franco believed the Germans would lose and he told Hitler so. Franco feared all the Spanish islands and large parts of Spain being occupied by the British and Spain turned into a battle ground. Spain was in no fit state to fight a war.

Spanish troops never went to Russia. The 'Division Azul' was a volunteer force - Spanish volunteers into the German army. Franco told them to go back to Spain in Spring of 1943 when it was abundantly clear the Germans would lose. Many Spanish men joined the British and Free French. The first "French" troops into Paris were Spanish.

There was a plan to occupy Spain in 1945 and get rid of Fascism for good. Attention turned to the USSR, so Spain was spared occupation by British and American forces. It was a mistake. They should have got rid of Franco and introduced democracy to the Spanish people.

Spain was not invaded by anyone, so it was the only western european country, along with Portugal, that did not belong to any "democratic" franchise. Not a dictatorship either, but a organic democracy governed by the "movimiento" that included all tendencies, sort of corporate democracy with corporate economy until 1959.

The invasion attempt through the Pyrinees in 1945, Valle de Aran, was a communist operation performed by communist Spanish soldiers in France that were defeated 5 years ago, they failed. They did not want to restore democracy. Spanish communists were Stalinists.

Division Azul were Spanish troops de facto, volunteers but Spanish troops with experience in combat. There was the Division Azul, that were pulled out in 1943 due to international pressure, and Legión Azul, that remained until the end, I believed some of them defended Hitler's bunker. They were sent to Russia as a vengeance for all atrocities commited by communist in Spain during the civil war, and to help Germans, at least in a small mesure, as they helped the National Army with aircraft and weapons.

Those spanish soldiers that joined French resistance, etc, were communists, anarchists, in no way democrats. They tried to make a coup in France, but De Gaulle removed them in a clever way, De Gaulle was a great admirer of Generalisimo.

Last edited by Miserere; 02-13-2015 at 06:33 AM..
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Old 02-13-2015, 06:31 AM
B87
 
Location: Surrey/London
11,769 posts, read 10,593,888 times
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Europe spans from 34n to 82n, the midpoint being 58n. That puts almost all of the UK in the southern portion.

If you consider just mainland Europe, the northernmost point is at 71n, midpoint 53n. That puts London, along with the majority of the UK population, in the southern portion.

The UK is western, not Northern Europe.
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Old 02-13-2015, 06:37 AM
 
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Yes, western Europe, also for historical reasons, from being being a roman province to become an active part in western European politics since the lower Middle Ages, plus, they became Christians very early and have been part of the "Christendom" during the last 1700 years.
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